RF ID Ignored in Two Sales; Referral/Royalty Incorrect (by my calcs)

[YesItsRoy]

I placed three orders yesterday:  One with Clean Link, then one with RF ID included, then another with RF ID included. 

First order, I confirmed I was logged out, cleared all Zazzle cookies (which would’ve ensured I was logged out, of course), and checked for any RF ID stored (none).  I pasted the link Clean Link into my browser, customized my Product, added to Cart, changed the paper type, added to Cart, opened Cart, logged in, placed order, manually checked again for any RF ID stored (none), deleted all Zazzle cookies and the spammy ROKT cookies.  Royalty + Referral Earnings result below.  I cannot get them to correlate to what should’ve been paid – “goal” of 40% less Excess Royalty Fee.

Second order: I confirmed I was logged out, cleared all Zazzle cookies (which would’ve ensured I was logged out, of course), and checked for any RF ID stored (none).  I pasted the link RF ID Link into my browser, manually checked for any RF ID stored (there are two places in the code I can find them typically, and mine only was stored), customized my Product, added to Cart, changed the paper type, added to Cart, opened Cart, logged in, placed order, manually checked again for any RF ID stored (onlyl mine).  Royalty + Referral Earnings result below.  The site ignored that my RF ID was included in the link and paid me same as above.

Third order: Same as Second Order.

After the third try, I finally let it go because it was 1 a.m. here, and I want the Products to test for practicality in intended use.

Royalty Screenshot:

Referral Screenshot:

it’s not just that the site didn’t recognize my RF ID, it appeared to have stripped both my RF ID and my TC parameters.  Per Google Analytics , no parameters were set (even though I saw my own RF ID in the code, and I manually typed my TC parameter).  You can see above on Referral screenshot no TC parameter noted and below no Query Strings associated with the clicks.

The math isn’t mathing and the code isn’t coding.  

[tiffjamaica]

I hope Z chimes in on this because I ran it through my spreadsheet and you are right, the math isn’t mathing (as I understand it).  As for the referrals, I don’t think any of us fully understand how the new system is attributing referrals. I was really expecting more information from Z after the initial FAQs, but here we are over a month later and lost as ever.

[Anne]

@YesItsRoy  Thank you for your research. Being mathematically challenged, I do not understand why you get only 8% referral fee? Shouldn’t that be somewhere from 15% and higher?

[ColsCreations]

As for the math part, it maths exactly if the product is in the 25% category.
Double-check is [royalty + referral + transaction fee = 25% of order total]

But uhm, there isn’t a 25% category.
So I don’t know what you’ve stumbled into here. Maybe they’ve made a legit mistake in coding the rate for whatever product type this was.

As for the ref ID thing -
The updated Ambassador FAQS plainly state they use cookies and “other technologies” to track referrals. If you dig into the Privacy notice, they specifically mention use of Pixels. That’s server-side info, beyond the ability of users to control. We can clear cookies 'til the cows come home but there’s still, as has become rather evident since April 1st, markers out there beyond our control. The first order you placed using a clean link, you were properly credited (neverminding the math mistake) with it being a self-promotion. So it follows that the 2nd & 3rd orders were credited same as they were in the protected 14-day window where the first referrer can’t be overwritten. You could have been at ground-zero with no “cookies” at all or on day 13 of your own “cookie” as your referral marker - who knows? Either way, according to Zazzle’s “cookie” rules, that first one couldn’t have been overwritten by the 2nd or 3rd. “Clearing cookies” does not work like it used to for ensuring the referral goes to the party you want it to, it’s become very hit or miss as again, there’s “other technologies” at play that we can’t control.

See also: Corrupted Cookies and the “Catch All” thread in the Pro Basic forum. And countless posts scattered across various threads since April 1st.

[Anne]

Thanks for this (rather shocking again) info, @ColsCreations  
I searched myself colorblind to find these privacy settings, but here it is:
https://www.zazzle.com/terms/privacy_notice#cookies
It probably requires about a month’s work or so to protect yourself from these pixels and other stuff, if possible at all.
I currently use a scan from Advanced System Care. They find anywhere from about 200 MB to 1 GB(!!!) of crap in just one day of ordinary computer use (even with privacy settings in browsers adjusted).
Meantime in the FAQ about the “ambassador” program:
Q: What happens if a Customer clears their cookies before purchasing?
A: If a Customer deletes their cookies, Zazzle may not be able to track the Referral, and a Referral
Commission might not be awarded for that sale.
I guess this beast only works in Zazzle’s favor and not in that of the designers. Or am I missing something here?

[Sara_H]

@ColsCreations  Perhaps they’ve created a special 25% catchall department category/ “goal” /self referral/ commission based structure just for store keepers who purchase their own products with a clean link and forgot to tell us maybe?

[YesItsRoy]

New day, new test, new clean browser, new product, new customer even!  Same results. Sort of.

Created a new version of the Product in another color.  Used Microsoft Edge – super clean and not used for Z stuff on the regular.  Cookies enabled; Cookies set.  JavaScript is permitted.  

For curious minds, trying both paper types of a pt-zazzle_flatpapersheet in Crafts and Party. Other Products I’ve sold which default to one Department, say, Home & Living (40%), when categorized in, say, Wedding (50%), are reduced based on the Department we select and not their default, so I would expect this to be 40%, if Clean Link; 15% Referral if not (and it was not). 

First Order:  Same as above SECOND order above.   Did not even try a clean link because I wanted a fresh test.   Royalty and Referral same as prior tests Second and Third above which started as Clean Link.

Second Order:  I used my and my business partner’s account to make the purchase.  Logged out of my account, and _knowing _my RF ID was set (because I was credited with both a Referral and a Royalty on my purchase _and _detected my RF ID in the browser) did NOT delete cookies. Same result, except that, just to rub salt in the wound, I was shorted an extra penny for bringing a customer to Zazzle.

Yes, it was a Self Referral, but there was _never _a Clean Link involved AND the math still doesn’t math.  And my Tracking Code was stripped again.

Royalty Screenshot:

Referral Screenshot:

Go figure.

[YesItsRoy]

Me too, and I’ve been around a while – I was once an explainer of how things worked.

[YesItsRoy]

@Anne  wrote:

@YesItsRoy  Thank you for your research. Being mathematically challenged, I do not understand why you get only 8% referral fee? Shouldn’t that be somewhere from 15% and higher?

With an RF ID, it should be 15%.  With a Clean Link (No RF ID), it will vary depending on what the Royalty Rate is – it could be as low as 8%.  Thinking on it, if Royalty Rate were 50% in Wedding, then I would think the Referral would actually be 0%, because of a 50% cap on Royalty + Referral Earnings (if I understand it correctly). 

[YesItsRoy]

When I started reading your post, " But uhm, there isn’t a 25% category." is exactly what I thought.

They’ve alluded to “other technologies” for a while now, and I think now that Google has turned on their stance that fingerprinting was an invasion of privacy (no, wait, we could make MORE money if we use it!), I think everyone else has too.  Beacons and trackers aren’t new here either, though the Privacy Policy appears more explicit about naming them. 

Current Privacy Policy includes this gem:

_ 1. Browser and Device Information : Zazzle receives information from your browser and/or mobile device when you visit the Site._

a. Browser and Device Information can include your IP address, device type, browser type, Global Privacy Control information (“ GPC ”), app information, including app version, app usage and bug information, app ID, hardware model, operating system, unique device identifier, your language, and other data used to track attribution or other linkages.

Whether or not clearing all of a sites data (completely nuking it in browser) actually clears tracking is another conversation. What I want is just to be PAID PROPERLY and not have to be Einstein to figure out what I’m _supposed _to be paid.  Honestly, the Theory of Relativity shouldn’t play a role here. 

[YesItsRoy]

It probably requires about a month’s work or so to protect yourself from these pixels and other stuff, if possible at all.

Two full days for two computers with Edge, Firefox, and Chrome to attempt to get them to reasonable levels of tracking and fingerprinting.  

Meantime in the FAQ about the “ambassador” program:
Q: What happens if a Customer clears their cookies before purchasing?
A: If a Customer deletes their cookies, Zazzle may not be able to track the Referral, and a Referral
Commission might not be awarded for that sale.

^^^This.  Cookies still have a role and I’d like to understand why they’re not working. 

I guess this beast only works in Zazzle’s favor and not in that of the designers. Or am I missing something here?

That’s my conclusion too, so maybe we’re both missing something!

[ColsCreations]

For curious minds, trying both paper types of a pt-zazzle_flatpapersheet in Crafts and Party.

Ah, knowing the exact product blank is helpful and I think could possibly be the key to the 25% here. ???

If you look here
Putting Your Designs on the Correct Paper Products
Each blank you click on, you can scroll to the bottom of the page and see the “breadcrumb” which shows what  department it is in. But there are 5 that have no category breadcrumb. They are the ones that start with an *asterisk and are described as “a generic ‘catch-all’ for miscellaneous content”.

https://www.zazzle.com/pd/spp/pt-zazzle_flatcard
https://www.zazzle.com/pd/spp/pt-zazzle_profilecard
https://www.zazzle.com/pd/spp/pt-zazzle_foldedcard
https://www.zazzle.com/pd/spp/pt-zazzle_magneticcard
https://www.zazzle.com/pd/spp/pt-zazzle_flatpapersheet

Since you got a 25% rate in both your tests of same product blank, it can’t be just a “glitch”. I’m seriously thinking that these five orphans intended as “generic catch-alls” with no default cat are set to their own odd 25% bracket that Z thought was too specific and/or too uncommon to include/explain in the Commission & MRF tables. We’d need Self-Promotion sales of these other four odd blanks to find out.

Other Products I’ve sold which default to one Department, say, Home & Living (40%), when categorized in, say, Wedding (50%), are reduced based on the Department we select and not their default …

That’s interesting as it’s opposite what I found in this example of a coffee mug (product type = Home & Living 40%) assigned to a wedding cat (50%) by the Designer, and it was the actual product type cat that applied.

Wedding items are really weird though as there is no actual product type cat for wedding, not even on the above list of paper types. If you look at the blanks offered - https://www.zazzle.com/custom/weddings - they are everything & anything one might want to designate as wedding related. And once they are, “weddings” becomes the top main cat like:
Weddings – Invitations & Stationery – Wedding Invitations
Everything else like baby shower or birthday invitations, Invitations & Stationery still comes first as the main cat. It’s very confusing and I’m sorry that it’s veering off your main concern here, but I think there needs to be a FAQs v3 issued that explains which Commission/MRF bracket is applied.

[YesItsRoy]

@ColsCreations  wrote:

 

For curious minds, trying both paper types of a pt-zazzle_flatpapersheet in Crafts and Party.

Ah, knowing the exact product blank is helpful and I think could possibly be the key to the 25% here. ???

If you look here
Putting Your Designs on the Correct Paper Products
Each blank you click on, you can scroll to the bottom of the page and see the “breadcrumb” which shows what  department it is in. But there are 5 that have no category breadcrumb. They are the ones that start with an *asterisk and are described as “a generic ‘catch-all’ for miscellaneous content”.

I have some Products that *easily* and *logically* can go in either Crafts & Party or Office & School – including Stickers, which default to Crafts & Party.  I have multiple colorways and put some in each Department to see how sales went.  Since April 1, I’ve sold some of each Department, and I was tagged for 45% on those in Office & School  and 40% for those in Crafts & Party.  

If they didn’t convolute how we get paid and how much they scrape off the top of our ROYALTY percentage, none of us – including Zazzle employees – would have to waste so much time on this and FAQs and, honestly, just being irritated and ticked off.  But here we are.

[ColsCreations]

@YesItsRoy  

Update from James 7/2/2025

Our team identified and resolved a system error that affected how Referral Commissions and Marketing Royalty Fees for certain Product types were calculated. Transactions since June 7th reflect the correct rates.

We can confirm that Zazzle_flatpapersheet was previously set to the department rate of 25% and it is now 50%.

[YesItsRoy]

Thank you for sharing that update!

Do you know whether adjustments were made for sales from April 1 through June 6, and if not, when will they be forthcoming? 

[ColsCreations]

No idea. Was curious myself about the June 7 date, seems so random.