why am I paying the "excess royalty fee" twice?

MasterpieceCafe
Valued Contributor III

Looking at the new "transaction detail" in the referral history. It looks like the "excess royalty fee" is being subtracted out of my royalty (expected) but also out of my referral commission?

Why is this being taken out twice?

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1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

$40.00 x 50% = $20.00 Earnings Goal (or the Earnings Cap as I prefer to call it)

$17.08 Referral earned + $2.62 Royalty earned + $0.29 Excessive Royalty Fee  = $19.99 --> 50% of total customer paid

$17.08 + $2.62 = $19.70 total earnings
19.70 is 49.25% of total customer paid
19.70 + 0.29 = 19.99 -- 50% of earnings

This is correct. You're earning 50% of the NRS (total customer paid), less the Excessive Royalty Fee.

* yes, sometimes the final total is off by a cent due to rounding up or down in the calculations

 

 

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11 REPLIES 11

Windy
Honored Contributor II

I am finding the same!

Come on over to the dark side.

ColsCreations
Honored Contributor III

This is not the case. They're just not displaying the info ideally so it does look like that at first. I checked all my sales since April 1st (not a big task, LOL) and all work out exactly right.

ColsCreations_0-1752900578146.png

Net Referred Sales (NRS) = total customer paid ($11.56)
Earnings goal = NRS x department rate ($11.56 x 40% = $4.624)
So that's the max you can earn on this sale, royalty & referral combined

Now just add up the next three lines:
Referral ($3.70)
Royalty ($0.85)
ERF ($0.08)
= $4.63
Total earnings are 40% of the total customer paid, less the excessive royalty fee.
Just as Zazzle says it's supposed to work.

When this new plan was first announced, people were saying it looks like the ERF is being deducted twice. Zazzle's response was basically, we know it looks like that, but it's just a math thing we can't explain so trust us. I give them that one. When I first was looking at their examples at that time, it did look like it was being deducted twice but the math always worked out properly where it's not.

All one needs to do to re-assure themselves is add up those three things - Royalty, Referral and ERF.
That's going to equal the Earnings Goal (what customer paid x marketing bracket %)

Since the "formula" to figure out total earnings is [Net Royalty + ERF + Referral = Earnings Goal].
The referral amount is always the wild card, it is whatever it needs to be to make the EG total correct. Which is why they removed the % it works out to from the reports, it was just confusing people and isn't a meaningful number in this new system. 

Disclaimer here - I haven't had any sales since April 1 that include a 5% User-Option or Secondary Content (have never had that before) but for a normal US sale without those odd things and no currency mess to figure out, everything is correct on my end, and what shows on the regular report line-items matches what is shown on the detailed view.

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On a self referral it is definitely subtracted out twice.

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masterpicecafe@gmail.com

Do you have an example? Are you possibly having a glitch where what you are actually being paid is not what the detail view shows?

I've only had two self-referrals under this new program and both of them check out. My above example was of course a self referral. Here's the total earnings box on it. 

ColsCreations_0-1752935486867.png

 

Earnings goal = NRS x department rate ($11.56 x 40% = $4.624)
Now just add up the next three lines:
Referral ($3.70)
Royalty ($0.85)
ERF ($0.08)
= $4.63
Total earnings are 40% of the total customer paid, less the excessive royalty fee.

The $4.55 total I earned is 39.4% of the total the customer paid.
If you add back in the $0.08 ERF, you get $4.63 which is 40% of the total customer paid. 

My earnings calculator only accounts for deducting the ERF once and has always worked out to correctly match the earnings others report. 

If I have been making a mistake in my calculating this, please show me where I've went wrong. 

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In the royalty breakdown Z takes out the 'excess royalty fee' AND a 'marketing fee' (which I don't understand since this was a self referral so I'm the one who marketed this product, but that is a different complaint).

In the referral commission the royalty is subtracted out AND the 'excess royalty fee' is taken out again. I should have made the $20-$2.62=$17.38, but I made $17.08 because the $.29 excess fee was taken out again.

 

ExcessRoyaltyFee.png

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masterpicecafe@gmail.com

$40.00 x 50% = $20.00 Earnings Goal (or the Earnings Cap as I prefer to call it)

$17.08 Referral earned + $2.62 Royalty earned + $0.29 Excessive Royalty Fee  = $19.99 --> 50% of total customer paid

$17.08 + $2.62 = $19.70 total earnings
19.70 is 49.25% of total customer paid
19.70 + 0.29 = 19.99 -- 50% of earnings

This is correct. You're earning 50% of the NRS (total customer paid), less the Excessive Royalty Fee.

* yes, sometimes the final total is off by a cent due to rounding up or down in the calculations

 

 

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Agree it's very weird now seeing it say Earnings Goal!  What is that an "Earnings Goal" that's crazy saying that now to designers.  It's an "Earnings Cap" now!  It's no longer "set your royalty as high or as low" as you feel your artwork, etc. is worth on your published designed items listed for sale!  That's how it used to be. 

I, too, was wondering about the excess royalty fee I was charged, as it was shown as a deduction twice, listed as a negative number, same as the other designer above.  But under the Royalty section the deduction is listed as Excess Royalty Fee, and under Referral Commision section the same amount deducted is listed as Excess Royalty Fee Adjustment. Very strange.

All of the changes over the years seem to always be worse for the designers sales and income getting less and less here unfortunately.  Now it's even more convoluted than ever since their New TOS 4/1/2025! 

Always loved the Zazzle platform and design tool, and vast array of items to design and sell on over the years!  But all of these constant changes and fees, and new TOS is very undervaluing of their creators (designers) work, and discouraging and sad!

ETA:   Zazzle, why are we designers being charged a Marketing Royalty Fee when we promoted the item ourselves? 

From what I wrote above regarding one of my sales it was a Self-Promotion link referral sale, yet I was charged on that one a Marketing fee of $3.47.  

And on another of my Self-Promotion link referrals I was charged a Marketing fee of $8.16.  

Why is Zazzle taking that money from designers?  Don't understand this.

This is some weird magic math. I'm still confused but ... I guess it makes sense?

 

Except for charging me a marketing fee when I'm the one who brought the customer.

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masterpicecafe@gmail.com

I think that because I already understood that those three things (Royalty, ERF, Referral) total to the Earnings Goal, it was clear to me the panel is showing the Royalty & ERF as being deducted from the Earnings Goal to determine the balance due as Referral. But since it threw numerous people for a loop, and will likely continue to do so, it would be in everyone's best interest if they work on laying it out in a clearer manner. 

ReferralBlock.jpg

I think that since there are four distinct ways to make a sale / have earnings calculated, we sometimes can't see the forest as we get lost in the trees. For this type of sale, it really doesn't matter what's labeled Royalty and what's labeled Referral, we're going to get a total of 35, 40, 45, or 50% of whatever the customer paid (less the ERF). We just have to drop our old way of thinking on this one. 

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Windy
Honored Contributor II

Interesting. I will refigure mine with your comments in mind. And it will be interesting to see comments from people who are getting referrals on products they did not design. I keep asking in the forums if anyone ever gets that kind of referral any more, and no one ever admits to being that third party who gets the referral. So I might never get to see if the excess royalty earnings deduction is also applied to the third party.

Come on over to the dark side.