Out of web color warning: Help for a color-ignorant designer

[k8hayes]

I'm using Illustrator CS3, am self-taught, work in RGB mode, and never studied color management. I usually ignore the "Out of Web Color Warnings," i.e., I don't click on the cube or the triangle-! to correct anything when I'm choosing colors. But today I started creating a design with a '70s color scheme, so the colors are important. Can I safely ignore the warnings, or should I heed them and correct the colors (click on the cube and/or triangle thingies)? 

[PenguinPower · Accepted solution]

No, you should not ignore the warning -There are two - the top one, the triangle is the important one to pay attention to it means "out of gamut", which means the color cannot be accurately reproduced using a conventional CMYK color printing process, which unless is otherwise specified, you should assume is being used for the products you are designing here... The bottom warning (the square) is web safe colors and not particularly important to this application.

If you've used an out of gamut color you can click on the triangle to adjust your color to what Illustrator thinks is the nearest that can be reproduced, or you can choose a new color if the adjusted color is not to your liking. Once you click on the correction you'll see the color box split - the top is the corrected color the bottom is your original color. Sometimes the difference is pretty drastic, so it's something you definitely want to pay attention to. If you want to avoid surprises, you can use one of the Pantone CMYK color books. All of those colors will be in gamut, and they aren't Pantone's proprietary spot colors, so there's no worry about licensing. 

[k8hayes]

That's what I needed. Thanks! 

[Barbara]

When I was first here, I worked back and forth between CMYK and RGB because I found that, when going from RGB to CMYK, the worst color of all was magenta, and if I'm remembering correctly, turquoise was second in line. So, I'd design in CMYK and then change it to RGB. The CMYK files were enormous, and so I gave up. It's been an awfully long time since then, and I've wondered how much difference it makes here on Zazzle. Scott once mentioned we should work exclusively in RGB and, in particular, Adobe RGB, but I wonder if this wasn't just because Zazzle doesn't accept CMYK. If it does happen to matter, what occurs to people when they download a product and then print it?

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[PenguinPower]

Nah - CYMK files are fine. All of my vector images from Illustrator are saved in CMYK and it's not a problem. I don't switch photos from RGB, but I do preview them with the generic CMYK proof setup to make sure they are going to look OK. 

[k8hayes]

What’s the generic CMYK proof setup, or is that a long story, too?

[PenguinPower]

No - it's not that a long story. When I work with photographs the native workspace is Adobe RGB. I don't change that, but there is a setting in which I can preview on my screen what the image will look like when printed in standard CMYK. This allows me to see, without actually converting the file, if I might want to brighten the image up a bit, as a straight up conversion right from RGB to CMYK might look a bit dull. Leaving the image in RGB leaves the possibility of extended gamut printing processes open, whereas if I converted the image to CMYK, I'd be locked into a more limited color palate. At Zazzle, as there are various vendors that may be doing the printing on different products, while I certainly want to make sure my images will look good when printed in standard CMYK, I get the feeling it's probably a good idea to not limit oneself - you never know what printing process they may be using. 

If you use Photoshop it's under the "view" menu - "Proof Colors" - there's actually a bunch of setting you can use (in Proof Setup).. you can preview for print, screens, even color blindness. Of course it's all still an approximation, unless you use monitor calibration. (more than the calibration that comes with your OS..)

When working in vector, I don't find it to be a problem to use a color palette that I already know is 'safe'. I tend to use the Pantone CMYK uncoated as I know all of the colors will be in gamut and the preview should be relatively accurate to what I'll see printed on most products. Worst to worst, if the product is printed on something that is shiny or has a varnish applied the colors will be a little nicer... 

[k8hayes]

I’m wondering why you don’t just work in CMYK only? 
I don’t use Photoshop, just Illustrator, only because I’ve never taken the considerable amount of time it would take me to learn it (or Gimp). 
Thank you for your excellent explanations! 🙂

[PenguinPower]

In Illustrator I do just work in CMYK.  
Photography is a little different and it has to do with where it all starts..

Light and ink mix differently. Ink is a subtractive process. No ink = white All inks = black (ostensibly.. but really it would probably be more muddy, which is why it's cyan, magenta, yellow and black, to get good neutrals),  Light is an additive process No light = black - when you mix all "colors" of light you get white, break light down and you get a spectrum, which red, blue and green encompass.

When you take a color photograph (digital or traditional film) you end up with 3 layers, a red one, a blue one and a green one, that when you shine light through them, together they create all the colors that you see. The RGB color model can produce 16,777,216 colors (which is a bit less than your eye can detect). CMYK Ink printing on the other hand can only produce 16,000 colors.. You can probably see the problem here...  But printing technology is always evolving. Indeed , I could just convert the images.. but why do that...  if I ever want to use the images for RGB display (screens, transparencies) or if/ when something new and innovative rolls around I've already taken my my nearly 17 million colors and turned them into 16 thousand and there's no going back the other direction... 

Since to someone like me... as a photographer and designer, nothing is better than a visual.. here's what a spectrum looks like in RGB, vs saved in CMYK
RGB

CMYK

[k8hayes]

Whoa Nelly! I think I even understood most of that! ☺️ Thanks!

[k8hayes]

Hi Barbara. 👋 What are the advantages of CMYK over RGB, or is that a long story? I have always used RGB, and my work is mostly text based, so… 🤷🏻‍ And so printing will give me a good idea of what the colors will look like when they’re finished products? (Told ya I was color ignorant.) 
Thanks for chiming in.

[Barbara]

@PenguinPower: Thank you! I've only been using Photoshop for 25 years. Is that an excuse for never noticing proof colors? LOL

@k8hayes: After the first month or so on Zazzle, I stopped worrying about color. I do mainly graphics and illustration, rarely photos, so if anything manages to print with a slightly different color, the customers don't seem to mind. Any cancellations I have are usually on the same day of the order, which means it has to be simply a change of mind, not the colors.

I was under the impression from the few things Zazzle has said that they have some kind of process that works well with RGB.

If whatever we're doing seems to work, there's no sense in changing it.

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[k8hayes]

I like the way you think. ☺️

[Barbara]

I think like the old person that I am, which means there isn't enough time left for worrying about intricacies other than if the speck on a wall is a spider or dirt.

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