Screenshots...
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04-19-2022
01:38 PM
- last edited on
04-19-2022
02:51 PM
by
Scott
<screenshot removed by Moderator because it contained a user's full name>
Have to love people like this guy 👆 who straight up when I told him that my design was not available for digital download told me he was just giving me the courtesy of offering me a few bucks as he had already screenshot the invitation to use to send to all his friends. Ugh! I wish people had morals.
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04-19-2022 02:36 PM
You are not the only one. There is a discussion going on here:
Would be good if you can post there as well so Zazzle can see how nasty bad the problem really is.
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04-19-2022 02:52 PM
I completely understand your frustration with this, but please do not post screenshots that include anyone's name.
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04-19-2022 03:03 PM - edited 04-19-2022 03:06 PM
Unbelievable... He should be banned from the site for admitting to stealing in my opinion. Obviously he can just make another account, but this absurd. I feel like I need to start watermarking all my art, but that is not necessarily the best choice either for promotion or showcasing the products in the best way. I just had to issue a DCMA to have my e-book removed from a site where another person was offering it as the author. And I'm just a little barely seen artist/designer. It feels like the digital/internet attitude of "if I can get it for free it's mine" is running rampant.
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04-19-2022 03:27 PM
I'm sorry to hear this Malissa! I'm happy to add links to your eBook meanwhile to my sites if you want an extra boost of traffic. I can add it to your features.
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04-19-2022 03:37 PM - edited 04-19-2022 03:38 PM
Thank you Leah. I offer it for free as a thank you for signing up for my newsletter, so I am not sure if you would want to link it like that, but, if you still wanted to, I can send you the mockup image I use as well as the direct link to the squeeze page for the signup form. You can message me here if you want.
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04-20-2022 01:43 AM
yes Melissa, send it across 🙂
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04-19-2022 08:53 PM
A long LONG time ago, I remember inserting a few lines of code (JavaScript?) into one of my websites to block the use of the Print Screen function (of course, in this day and age, that alone won't deter the other ways thieves will do screengrabs).
Redbubble has watermarking protection in place for artists' artwork, and certain apps already block screenshots on Android devices.
W.H.
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04-20-2022 04:11 AM
If you block screen grabs from Zazzle we won't be able to take them ourselves for promotional reasons. Although blocking thieves would be awesome it also blocks the creator as well. There lies the rub for sure.
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04-20-2022 04:59 AM - edited 04-20-2022 05:01 AM
They can also steal images off of other sites where we promote, so that isn't the answer either.
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04-21-2022 01:56 PM
If image mockups can be downloaded by the creator for their own store only when they are logged in, that would be ideal. So for example: I cannot download yours and you cannot download mine. That would be a good start.
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04-22-2022 05:17 AM
I think this is a really wonderful idea and deserves to be in the Ideas and Suggestions.
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04-20-2022 06:03 AM
I know this isn't really a productive reply, but
GRRRRRRRRRRRR.
Productive idea, based of requests I have received from potential customers via Zazzle messages: There seems to be a customer demand for digital downloads of our designs right on site here. A way for us to assign a monetary value would be a great option.
People would still steal, but at least we'd catch the honest customers.
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04-20-2022 07:44 AM
Once again, this only confirms that people actually WOULD buy digital invites if the option to do so is right there. This guy wouldn't bother with screenshots and moreso with chat if he could simply "Buy this as a digital invite" for a reasonable price like $10-15. The designer would get their royalty as a few bucks and Z would get their share as a few bucks which is again better than nothing as they had no intention to buy a printed bunch anyway.
I may be wrong, but lately I've been under the impression that the demand for digital invites grows stronger and people are willing to pay for those. At the same time, digital thievery grows stronger as well (again, it's what I've been seeing, I have no statistics). So all I can think of is either watermarks or creating a way to buy a digital version so people don't go out of their way to steal it.
I also think that the situation will only worsen with time. It's one thing when thieves steal digital images to resell (has always been there, will always be there); but it's another thing when a general population figures that if they want it digital for personal purposes they can steal it as there's no option to buy it.
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04-20-2022 10:49 AM
I totally agree. I probably get 3-4 requests per week at minimum. I know some designers use images that they didn't create themselves, and the license they've purchased wouldn't allow for a download, so it would have to be an opt-in sort of thing, but I do think that for certain products (specifically invitations) there should be a designer option to allow the customer to purchase a download. The purchase could come with a personal use license. Obviously, there will be some abuse - but the abuse is already happening - and failing to provide legitimate users a way to pay for a download only hurts us.
Second thought... I wonder if there are licensing issues with the fonts that Zazzle provides? I sorta doubt it, but maybe that's the issue?
Cat @ ZB Designs
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04-20-2022 05:30 PM
regarding the fonts, there actually are a few that are not available to download for free so that might well be part of the hesitancy.
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04-20-2022 09:53 AM
Uh people think 50 cents is a reasonable price for a digital download. Anything more than that and I think they'll steal the image. I have noticed a big change in customers in the past few months - and it hasn't been for the better. I am really considering watermarks on everything.
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04-21-2022 09:30 AM
I've also noticed that people have become so tight with parting with money that stealing isn't wrong in their eyes. It's the "up for grabs" mentality becoming pervasive in our society.
I've often thought of the watermark as well but it looks so dang awful with Pinterest etc.
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04-20-2022 05:24 PM
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04-20-2022 05:27 PM
Thieves will steal no matter what we do... but they don't have to rub it in our faces that way.
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04-20-2022 08:02 PM
I don't have a dog in this race as I don't publish much in the way of stationery, but I am against Zazzle offering digital downloads.
I spent many years in a home-remodeling business. There are specialists and there are jacks-of-all-trades. And there's a saying "jack of all trades, master of none". Zazzle prints physical products (and does it well in my experience) with a heavy emphasis on customizing which no other POD I've looked into can do - letting the end-customer actually edit/customize the design. Digital downloads are a whole 'nother direction that would take focus away from their main business model of custom printing and there's enough there to be fixed/improved before venturing out into a whole different line of business. I don't want to see Zazzle become a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. The introduction of the Create tool for making downloadable images for use on social media complicated things enough. Does Zazzle want to be a printer or a stationer or a stock image site or something like Canva or all of the above? Trying to be all things to all people usually ends with not doing anything well.
That said, on to the other aspect.
People have mentioned $10-15 for a digital download and that while it wouldn't be much after Zazzle took a share, it would still be better than nothing. But would you really want to sell-out that cheaply? Once someone has a high-quality digital copy of your design, they can put it on ANYTHING . 25, 50, 200 invitations, t-shirts, signs, mugs, favors, anything. Here or uploaded to any other print service online or locally brick & mortar. It wouldn't matter what was written in the Terms of Use fine print as people are already OK with stealing images; if they paid for a download they would feel entitled to use it any way they wanted as often as they wanted and like, who would ever know if I violate those terms (if they even read them anyway). Digital download is giving customers carte blanche with your design.
There's another thread here somewhere where a designer had someone ask them if they could buy a digital copy of their design for a pretty paltry sum + some shout-outs and the responses where, no, that's not near enough, $300-400 were suggested. Why would one want to give away a "digital download" for less? Even if you were willing to settle for as little as say $30, it would probably have to sell for around $50 so Zazzle could take a cut and still give you the $30. And I believe Nelda is right - people aren't going to be willing to pay that much so they'll steal it anyway. I don't think they'd pay even the $10-15 when they could just grab it for free and who would ever know?
I don't think that giving your work away for peanuts because "it's better than nothing" is logical. Instead of introducing digital downloads I'd rather see Zazzle put that time & effort instead to developing anti-theft measures for their existing business model.
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04-20-2022 08:30 PM
I totally get where you're coming from, and I think that for the vast majority of designs/products your stance is completely reasonable. But when it comes to wedding invitations, most couples these days have a wedding website where they post all of the relevant information including digital copies of their invitations. I've lost quite a few orders because people wanted their digital invite to match the printed ones and it wasn't possible.
I'm NOT suggesting that people be able to buy a digital download instead of ordering printed invites, but I do think it would be helpful if people could buy a digital version in addition to the printed ones - like maybe it's only available with a minimum purchase of 100 printed invites or something like that.
I agree about the "jack of all trades" thing, but I do think there's a balancing act in terms of keeping up with the industry, and for the wedding industry at least, having a website is pretty much just part of the game these days. Part of me would even like to see Zazzle offer wedding websites, but once again, that's venturing off into a whole new business area, so I dunno.
I sorta think it's a moot point because I don't really see Zazzle moving in that direction, but that's my 2 cents from the wedding perspective - you either keep up or lose out.
Cat @ ZB Designs
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04-21-2022 05:24 AM
I am not putting my designs on a digital version. Period. I really don't want the pressure that this type of policy would force me into. I have already had to start selling Budget versions because customers "see other designers doing it" and they want cheaper versions. Creating digital versions ensures that that design will end up everywhere. It also allows other designers on other platforms to get that digital version.
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04-21-2022 06:21 AM
I don't think anyone can force you to sell digital invites.
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04-21-2022 05:39 AM - edited 04-21-2022 05:43 AM
I currently sell digital invites and cards for $10-20. My share is around 80%, and of course I meant that in case it's implemented on Zazzle designer's royalty must be much higher than 14.9%, I think a good 50-60% is a minimum. Also, my digital cards can be purchased only after customization as PNG or flatten PDF so further reselling seems to be problematic as text often overlaps the artwork. I also only use fonts licensed for end customer.
==Once someone has a high-quality digital copy of your design, they can put it on ANYTHING . 25, 50, 200 invitations, t-shirts, signs, mugs, favors, anything.==
They only get a 5x7 digital INVITE, not an artwork. That means it's a PNG where text is put over an artwork in a nice way. Cutting out the artwork from an invite would require special effort and even then it would be too small to put it on t-shirts or "anything". Mugs maybe but who wants to do that.
For example, I have this Halloween invite on Zazzle:
I also sell elsewhere as a digital invite:
Someone may need it printed, someone may only need its mobile version.
As you can see, cutting out the artwork would be somewhat problematic but yes it can be done, the only question is what are the odds that someone would put effort into that only to find out that it is still too low res for printing on t-shirts and alike.
Of course implementing something similar on Zazzle can't be super easy but comparing to the Create tool already implemented (and I hope functioning), I don't think it would be super difficult either. And of course I agree with those who say that it should be an opt-in (a digital invite only exists on Zazzle if the designer of a printed invite (or card) chooses to create it). And it would require some different ToS maybe (regarding fonts, licensed artwork etc). And still, after all is done, for Z it would be just another stream of money because digital invites (or cards) don't require any production, shipping etc. Find an invite that has a digital version, customize using Template Fields, add to cart, pay, download. And the designers who currently simply lose sales could get a few bucks from customers who are not going to buy printed invites anyway.
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04-21-2022 06:00 AM
If Z were to do digital downloads, definitely, they would have to be entirely flattened, and only 300 dpi at the size of the paper product selected.
Ideally designers could post things for sale specifically as a digital download, it's own new product entirely.
I'd hope that royalties would be split a bit differently (higher chunk to the designer, maybe even reversed with designers at 70-80%) since there are no production or shipping costs (thought I understand it's not completely free to implement downloads).
Also a large increase in "help" calls come with digital downloads because people tend to also expect that the download provider knows how to operate every kind of home printer on the planet and resolve paper jams over the phone lol.
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04-21-2022 06:25 AM
@KC wrote:If Z were to do digital downloads, definitely, they would have to be entirely flattened, and only 300 dpi at the size of the paper product selected.
Ideally designers could post things for sale specifically as a digital download, it's own new product entirely.
I'd hope that royalties would be split a bit differently (higher chunk to the designer, maybe even reversed with designers at 70-80%) since there are no production or shipping costs (thought I understand it's not completely free to implement downloads).
Exactly this. As to customer service overload... well, I have no clue about that.
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04-21-2022 06:10 AM
Thanks for posting this Witty, I think this would be the way to go for offering digital imagery and Cat is right that we do need to keep up with wedding invite requirements. Super nice invite btw.
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04-21-2022 08:25 PM
When I wrote my post I was not talking about people wanting to steal the naked artwork w/ no text for whatever purposes. reselling it or otherwise. That actually had never even occurred to me and is an issue of itself. I was thinking strictly of people being able to use their customized digital invite image on anything they want as many time as they want. From an unlimited number of paper invites to mugs, pillows, ornaments, framed prints... anything that they might want as a keepsake of their wedding - they are now free to have a copy of their actual invite printed on it because they now have a nice digital file with no way of enforcing whatever Terms of Use came with it.
Flattening the image doesn't achieve anything because ... think about how the process works ...
The customer uses the provided template fields and/or the Design Tool to personalize the text exactly how they want it. Then they add to cart and buy whatever item. What's to stop them from leaving the template fields blank or going into the Design Tool and deleting them so the end design is nothing but the naked art which they can now buy as a digital file instead of on a physical product? Heck, you don't even have to buy that, you can steal that too, as I have done here for example purposes:
www.colscreations.com/
ScreenShots/
WittyBettyHalloween.png
The above is not a screenshot (that's just the directory I dumped it in) and I purposefully broke the URL up so it's not a clickable link, but put it together and you'll find a 2.5MB .png of your "naked art" at 1463 x 2028. (I'll delete it after you've seen this post.) Now let's say I bought the above as a digital download. What's to stop me from Photoshopping it any way I want to then printing and/or sharing it? Terms of Use that can't be enforced because who would ever know if the buyer is violating them?
Thieves can already grab your design, naked or customized, with or without buying a single print to reproduce themselves. Voluntarily providing digital downloads just makes it easier for them. Are the sales you'd make from honest folk worth that?
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04-22-2022 05:14 AM
While I agree with everything you said, my idea wasn't about stopping those who would steal anyway. My idea was about giving an option to buy to those who would buy. I see those as two different groups of people. Especially repeat customers on Zazzle. Those who steal purportedly will steal anyway; but those who need a digital invite would buy it.
As to unfair use, again, the average Joe buys an invite, sends it, has a party and forgets about it. Photoshopping an invite so that they can put it on t-shirt is not even in their mind. Sure they can edit it for the next party and send again but who wants to do that? People like to surprise their guests. They like sending out something new each time. I'm quite relaxed about possibilities of unfair use from those who are just "normal" customers (again, especially those who repeatedly come to Zazzle for their customized products). My idea was ONLY to give that group of people another product to buy. My idea was never to stop thieves because those who steal will steal anyway, even when offered the lowest price ever.
The logic is the following: there are thieves and there are honest customers. By not selling digital cards (not only invites, I'm also talking about mobile greeting cards, announcements etc), we don't stop thieves but we miss sales from honest customers. Selling digital cards, on the other hand, would only give thieves an opportunity comparable to what is already happening (so maybe won't make any difference whatsoever), but honest customers would buy so we'd get something instead of nothing. And I don't believe that unfair use of downloaded cards will be significant amongst honest customers. Who would sit and photoshop an invite to make a t-shirt out of it?
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04-22-2022 09:35 AM - edited 04-22-2022 09:35 AM
Exactly! And if somebody really wants a t-shirt or a mug of their wedding invitation (which none of my customers has EVER requested, but whatever), why on earth would they go to all the trouble of downloading the invite, photoshopping it in some way, finding a local source to print it etc, when Zazzle provides a convenient transfer button which would let them do all of that right here with one stop shopping. They might have to pay a few bucks in shipping, but seriously, I think the people who will spend hours stealing something so they can save $10 on shipping are few and far between.
Cat @ ZB Designs
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04-30-2022 04:24 PM
Because its not about the customer who wants THEIR invite on a shirt or mug or other product. Its about thieves who will EXPLOIT these options to steal hard work and ideas and create products that they bulk sell elsewhere and make money off of. I completely agree with @ColsCreations view point on this. This is mine 100%. We can sell digital versions offsite. This is A POD site, that many of us chose to sell on for a reason, much of that reason was because we didn't have time/desire/availability to deal with customer service and now are even being asked to do that with the chat feature. I would be really really disappointed and scared if Zazzle started to emphasize digital over POD or even offered it. Plus the royalty break don would not be reasonable. I hope Zazzle just sticks to being an AMAZING POD and we can work within this ecosystem to make it safer for designers (or creators whatever we are called now??) to share our work without making it a free-for-all for thieves and exploitative cash grabbers.
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05-01-2022 12:22 PM
I appreciate your opinion. I think there's truth in what Col said and in what you are saying; of course such a move must be well thought out before even A/B test (not like the Attribution project for example). I see benefits and downsides of the idea. As for me, I'd only post for sale digital cards where text is hard to extract from the background (=artwork) so re-selling them as customizable wouldn't be possible and re-selling them as non-customizable wouldn't make any sense. A roughly 1000*800 72 dpi pic where text is incorporated into the artwork is quite safe in terms of any use besides sending via mobile once.
But I am not trying to convince you or others who are against digital cards on Z. I am just showing where I come from and what backs up my idea. Again, I appreciate your opinion and perspective.
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04-21-2022 06:02 AM
I totally agree with you Cols, once you put a digital image out there, the business model of printing is gone, and this is something creators may not realize; they are two different business models. Zazzle is a Print On Demand printer, not a digital image provider like a popular site that starts with E. Peeps who want digital imagery, often come from there, but they don't have the variety (nor excellence if I may add LOL) in design that we creators offer on Zazzle. Once you go this direction, of selling digital, you cannot take it back. It would be rather impossible to track where and how the digital imagery was used. Selling a digital image with the print for any invitation, especially weddings, makes no sense. Why would they need the digital image if they're buying quantities of invites. They could simply buy one print just to procure the digital imagery. Once the word gets out, any digital thief could potentially buy them and resell them. There are multiple issues with selling digital copies of wedding invitations; many top-selling invitations use licensed imagery, which cannot, under license terms, be resold in digital copy, they can only be sold on finished physical products. This could potentially create a huge mess of copyright infringement reports against creators, from the artists who have licensed their imagery to them.
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04-21-2022 06:37 AM
I don't see it this dramatic, to be honest. Those who need printed invites and those who only need a digital version are two different groups and they don't overlap. Currently, the latter group steals. Offering them a way to buy would to some extent fix the issue and provide another income. I also don't believe in reselling as you can only download a customized invite as a flatten PNG image where you must edit the final image heavily to make it customizable again. That's why on my digital invites text overlaps the artwork. So while there of course can be abuse, there also would be profit and it is worth it because currently, the abuse is already happening and no one profits.
As to licensing, I agree, of course there should be different ToS; like, only using fonts that are licensed for end customers (Z knows better what fonts they have that are suitable for that); only using your own artwork (I'm fine with that), etc. Because it would be only a new, separately published product, designers could have another version of Design tool where only specific fonts would be available and the image folder for this tool could be also separated from the main Images (so that by uploading the image to there a Designer confirms that it's their own artwork).
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04-30-2022 04:29 PM
Offer them the option to buy a digital design on your personal site if you have this many requests for it4. Many of us do. We retain almost full % of the profit then and have a little more control over what is sold and not sold. I do not allow people to customize currently using Corjl or other DIY editor on my personal sites (too easy to steal from these DIY editors too) and I customize myself and send flat print ready work. Its work for me, but I can limit it and control it. This is POD site for a reason, they are a great POD and I would rather they invest time and effort into making their POD options better, and making it safer for their life force (us) to keep posting our creations rather than trying to bend the model for people. There are other avenues to accommodate genuine requests for digital only or custom work. Zazzle doesn't limit you from promoting yourself. Its a back scratch back situation. But I'd rather they focus on making sure indexing is working 100%, continuous improvements to the design tool, increasing our fonts, and protecting IP more than finding a new way to bleed into the exploitative marketplaces. No thank you.
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04-21-2022 06:44 AM
I forgot to say, as a voluntary action (creating a digital version), designers can choose what they want to sell digitally. Like, it doesn't have to be weddings specifically. But birthdays, parties, BBQs and other less formal events + holiday cards like Christmas, Halloween etc. I remember discussions where people mention that younger generation sends postcards much less than it used to be 20 years ago. But they still are interested in sending a cute card via mobile. I totally believe that it could provide a significant additional income for everyone who chooses to create a digital version of their cards.
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04-21-2022 02:30 PM
I had no intention of selling Budget versions either. But once so many people started, it is either sell them or don't get a sale. It is too easy for customers to move on. I was so happy when Zazzle raised the price of the paper sheets, so I make a little more on these. It will be the same way with digital downloads. I am seriously rethinking my Zazzle product mix.
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04-21-2022 02:13 PM
While some persons knowingly steal, there are many who just don't understand copyright law. Zazzle has a message that shows up beside images when you say that "a gold gradient" has been used and the message says "the gold is simulated" so the customer is reminded that the design is not 'gold foil'. Message like that but for copyright should be beside all images on the site including the area where you go into the design to customize it. The message should read something to the effect that "downloading/taking screenshots of an image is theft and against the law as well as ordering one invitation only that is scanned in later on and copies printed at home" as you are only purchasing a printed copy. You are not purchasing the image itself.
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04-21-2022 02:31 PM
I really don't think that will stop anyone. They know exactly what they are doing.

