Cover Photos Questions/Comments

[klstock]

I just read the announcement where Zazzle says they will be prioritizing products with cover photos. If so, then doing a search by "popular" would not be accurate, it would be arbitrary and misleading. I used to have several beach and tropical invitations that would be on the first and second pages of results because they have sold well. Now I have to dig a few pages in to find them (and they have cover photos!). If you do a search for "tropical wedding invitations" or "beach wedding invitations" and look at the results that show up on the first page, about half of them have zero to do with "beach" or "tropical".... 

The cover photos are extremely time consuming. If a person wants to do them on items of their choosing, and has time for it, great. I try to do as many as possible, but if you are doing a collection that has 20 - 30 items in it, there is no way I have time to do cover photos for every single product, and some don't need it. Some look good as they are with the focus on the product and artwork.

There is cost and time involved - is there an increased cut for the designers who are now functioning as a free art department? Yes in some cases, it may generate more sales - and yes the designer would profit from sales - but if the designer is the one incurring the fees (canva pro for example, or some are purchasing product mockups) and the designer is the one taking the time to make these cover photos - which takes time away from making OTHER stuff - then a bigger chunk of the profit should go to the designer. 

[Caprice]

I guess this is the place to put this question.  If you do a cover photo - then replace with a different one - does it ever update in the back end?  I've seen it update in the MP - but the back end stays with the orignal??

[Angel]

@ Caprice 

I have only replaced a cover photo once (having just started the process). I decided the first one didn't have the look I wanted, so replaced it, It has updated both on the product page and on the management product thumbnail.

Hope this is what you were asking.

Angel

[Marcia]

In my experience, sometimes it takes a day or two, or even more. Yet sometimes it's immediate.  Very hit or miss.

[Caprice]

@Marcia @Angel 

OK guys - thanks.  I'll wait 48 hours and see what happens!

[RodneyK]

I am guessing that Zazzle is doing cover photos and editor's picks to complete with other POD sites. The good part is that Zazzle is emphasizing quality and quality in presentation. I believe that this will be an ongoing process into the future. As a business you can't stay the same, you have to change, especially in something so new as POD. The bad part is that the marketplace is somehow disrupted and sales, increasing sales for some products and decreasing sales with others. Encouraging quality designs and discouraging poor designs is all to the good for serious creators. Zazzle is a business and have been rewarded with royalties for many years. Overall I am happy with Zazzle and will do what is needed for the site. Zazzle knows better hat will help sales than I do.

[klstock]

I was looking at my product insights for the new products I have created since last June. Of the products that sold, every single one says that I brought 100% of the views, 0% from Zazzle, nothing from the marketplace. Many of these are Christmas cards and they all had cover photos. 

The first thing I did when the custom cover photos were rolled out for everyone, was to do cover photos for my newest cards (since they were Christmas cards and it was that time of year), and I also did cover photos for my best selling older cards....

The insights on older products - such as ones created a year or more ago - usually show about 50% of the views were from marketplace, 30% or more due to Zazzle and a lesser amount from me (but this year I started being more active on Pinterest)

So, what changed? Why zero from Zazzle, and zero from marketplace - even on items that should have been fairly easy to find under normal circumstances. It seems rather alarming to me that these insights show not a single person found my stuff in the marketplace (I have good tags and cover photos on them and they sold just fine with my own promoting of them!)

Is there something wrong with the insight stats, am I misunderstanding something, or is this the result of stuffing the front pages with editor's picks? 

* I just want to be clear, I am talking only about products I created since last June. I haven't dived into the stats on older stuff.

[Westerngirl2]

The MP, in many cases, is still in disarray, it appears.

I just did a search for butterfly mugs. According to the results, there are over 35,000 of them in the MP, but there are only 13 pages shown sorted by popular. Starting on page 3 of those results, there are dozens and dozens of what appear to be plain white mugs. They appear that way because the mass producers that created them placed only a small butterfly design on one side, and they did not even take the time to pick an appropriate side view to show. I have 2 butterfly mugs, one that has sold 16 times that is on page 11 of the results, and one that has also sold 16 times, has a nice cover photo, and barely got "under the wire", being shown on page 13.

When we had earlier discussions about the numerous stores that seem to be mass producing with very similar store type names and often the same photos on their "about" info, it was the opinion of designers that those would soon fall out of search results due to having few views.

That seems to not be the case. Or.....customers just like to look at mugs with plain white sides being shown. Regardless, I still continue to make cover photos for products, but it does seem like I could be wasting my time.

[CrazyMermaid]

I just did that same search and don't see "dozens and dozens of what appear to be plain white mugs." I saw ONE. I went through all the pages. I did butterfly mug and butterfly mugs, with and without quotes. Logged in and Logged out. So the customer might not be seeing the same as you are. 

[Rebecca]

Hi Westerngirl2,

Thank you so much for highlighting this with us, I am so sorry for the disappointment caused! If possible would you be able to provide us with a link to the search page that showed you these results and we can take a further look into this? 

Thanks so much again for reaching out about this and I hope we will be able to help you further with this!

Best regards,

Rebecca 

[Westerngirl2]

Thanks, Rebecca. The white sided mugs seem to have vanished, so the situation resolved itself within a few hours. But now only 11 pages of butterfly mugs are found in the search. Do you know why the standard 17 pages of products don't appear?

Thank you!

[KeegansCreation]

It seems to have been a temporary glitch which has since resolved. I repeated the search when I first read WesternGirl's post and got the same results- mostly white mugs starting on page 3. This happened even when I just used the search term "butterfly" and then drilled down to mugs. But now, like CrazyMermaid, a repeat of the search gives expected results and the white mugs are gone.

[Westerngirl2]

Yes, after posting earlier I was off-line for 3 hours; just came back and it seems to have righted itself, although now only 11 pages of butterfly mugs appear. But the white sided mugs (except for one) seem to have vanished. Kinda weird, or someone jumped on it quickly! I'm glad you looked early and verified it, KeegansCreation, or I would have chalked it up to me being crazy! 😁

[klstock]

It has got to be some error with the stats/insights because I just went through and did a search for some of these cards, using search terms that I would use if I were a customer searching for these cards - and I can easily find them in the marketplace. Often on the first page even! I am using pretty broad/general search terms too - nothing too specific. 

Or - are markeplace searches being tabulated as "I" brought those views in the insights stats? 

[SandyMDesigns]

I am not a machine that can whip out new cover images for every product. What happens to people like me, who have been on Zazzle for a long time and have thousand and thousand of products? 

It can take me all day to do just a handful of cover images. I feel like we are doing free work on Zazzle's behalf.

[Caprice]

Anyone noticing cover photos being very slow to appear in the MP?

[whimsywhim]

Not just slow.  Some of mine have disappeared.  I've had to upload some of them again.

[Barbara]

@Caprice  Yes, slow indeed.

Colorwash's Home

[Caprice]

Have any cover photos been posted in the last 72 hours?  

[TAngelone]

klstock What you stated in your post is spot on. Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more. 

[Barbara]

I just read through this thread again and it confirmed my decision to do cover photos only for those items that show one side of the product per Zazzle in situ when, actually, both sides could be shown. Postcards are a fine example of this. So I've created masks in Photoshop to quickly cut out the front and back of a postcard and a template that includes drop shadows and a changeable background layer. I can drop my cutouts into it, position them properly with the shadows, then by grabbing both card and shadow, I can shift and tilt as I see fit. It isn't as fast as it might seem, but it's a whole lot faster than spending time scouring the internet for scenes. Besides, I don't want scenery with postcards. I want the images large enough so a customer can see the front picture and a good deal of what's on the back. Sometimes I add a little something to cover just because. But I'm not doing this for every postcard--only those I feel deserve it.

I'm using the same kind of procedure for folded cards, but again, only for those I feel deserve it.

The in situ images Zazzle has for posters are simply awful--tiny posters seen at a distance--and they should probably rethink them. I've done a few for myself, but they require creating a frame, which involves finesse in color and material. Too much time out of the day.

I did a whole series of a single type of mug after taking most of day creating masks and a template. I doubt I'll do this again.

Here's an example of a cover I did a couple days ago for a folded card. It uses the KISS principle:

Mother Goose - Rain, Rain, Go Away Get Well
by colorwash

I'm simply not going to waste away doing covers.

Colorwash's Home

[CrazyMermaid]

I think it is perfect!

[Barbara]

Thanks!

Colorwash's Home

[klstock]

I have been making far fewer products than I used to because cover photos take time. I focus only on products that I plan to do a cover photo for. 

When I make a new collection, I limit what items I add based on the amount of time I can allot to do cover photos.

A wedding collection for example - I don't have time to do 30 cover photos, so I keep the collection very lean and just do the invitation and enclosure cards, foam board sign, favor bags, and just a couple basic things - not all the other stuff that could go into a collection - because I know I don't have time to do cover photos for all that entails. 

Now I see the new media manager addition where they say you can add up to TEN photos! 😲🤣 Oh dear....

[Mariholly]

The same thing is happening here. I do a lot less design every day and spend a lot of my time making covers. I have also seen that we can add 10 photos. I'm not going to take 10 photos!!! I don't have that much time and I prefer to make covers that have a certain quality. I've been feeling like I'm constantly going back to square one for months now and I'm not a newcomer, I'm over $25,000 already and my prosilver is coming at some point. I shouldn't feel like a newcomer or that my years of work are useless. I have never been very critical of Z because for me it was a miracle that someone offered me this opportunity, but now I am truly devastated with so many changes that I try to follow day by day, trying hard, but it doesn't bear sales fall and fall and they fall... with covers, with new titles, with new tags and new descriptions...

[Fiorenzo]

Oh! We can now add 10 photos? If this is true, it gives the priceless opportunity to add a sheet with useful info for customers on how to use the design, tips, or variants. Need to check it out. Thanks for the hint, I personally hope it's true.

[KeegansCreation]

That's a good idea. 

[Cat]

That is a really good idea! Especially for the things that people always get wrong (like ordering 15 table numbers all the same assuming the software knows they want them numbered 1-15.) Hmmmm....

[Fiorenzo]

Yes, and I can finally show customers how they can illustrate the backs of their greeting cards with their own signature and logo. And visually show the pre-defined text styles I offer for captions and such. Not to forget the benefit on mugs, candles, and similar items where you can now add a preview with the full unwrapped design. Absolutely precious.

[klstock]

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine! 

[ColsCreations]

My first thought when I saw this new feature was carousel pins on Pinterest - multiple images with explanatory text & info on them - so like you have been wondering just how far we can go in that direction with this.

[klstock]

Looks like we started at about the same time and are about to be Silver at the same time, congrats!

I hear you on the cover photos. I do like them and it makes Pinterest stuff better. I just struggle with finding the time to do them, and in order to do the cover photos, it leaves me less time to create other things. Now you can add up to TEN photos - I have no idea how anyone would have that much time on their hands! Good for anyone who does - as some have pointed out, there can be a benefit to it - but I just don't have that much time to spare. 

[Westerngirl2]

I can see the advantages of adding more than 1 cover photo. Probably a good idea.

However.....the pop-up appearing constantly about the Media is extremely annoying. I hope that doesn't last long.

[Fizzy]

I wouldn't worry so much about that 🙂. I only create cover photos for products that have rubbish in-situs. Occasionally, I create cover photos for other products that I want to promote on either Pinterest or IG. Other than that, I don't bother. I really don't think it's hurting my sales, but then again, what do I know - I'm just a Pro Bronze designer 😁. I also have a day job and simply don't have enough time to fiddle around with cover photos. 

[ArtVixen]

Well said, thank you! 

I wouldn't mind making an occasional mockup for when I thought a certain product could look better or more interesting with my artistic touch, but having my designs demoted is a pretty mean way to treat artists. Why do I have to spend money and time making mockups when we already have a lot of nice product photos here? In fact, there's a lot of products that still need better photos. I guess Zazzle wants us to make them. I'd rather spend my time creating new art and products. I'll share my art and Zazzle products via social media for customers to find since they might not find them in the mp anymore. 

[Barbara]

I focus sporadically on poster mockups because Zazzle's don't zoom in enough to see the actual poster. It ends up looking like a patch on the wall. A lot of their in situs are fine just as they are. Mostly, though, I do covers for the same reason you do: If I feel a product deserves a boost.

Colorwash's Home

[almdrs]

I have an account on PlaceIt and I can create as many covers as I want, but I'm not going to do it for a simple reason: sometimes the shape of a mug, or the design of a t-shirt are not the same as the products that I'm selling on Zazzle.

Some customers have "an eye" for tiny details (like "this mug has its handle lower than that in the pic", "these sleeves look different"... etc. ).

So I think I'm not doing it. I may change my mind in the future.

[PacifierCity]

My Personal Observations so far...

Creating a product and then creating a cover photo breaks my creative flow.    I have found that I don't want to go on a Z product creating spree ... ie creating 10 -15+ products in a day, because I won't have time to create covers for them all.  So I might create 1 or 2 new products with covers a day.  In the same day I might create a cover or two for existing products.  Then I'm done.  The rest of that creative energy has dissipated.

The small percentage of products that I have created covers for are not flying off the shelf... most have not sold at all... and some do not seem to even be getting more views.

I have not yet found a style of cover photo that "works" (see above sentence) even though I have tried several different styles.

So far, it seems that having me create covers has reaped little reward.  This is both from a financial point of view, but more importantly, from a artistic flow and product creation stand point.  Having received the email asking me why I've been unactive recently... really made me think about my work flows in the past and what has changed.  It seems to me that Z could easily offer a "Create a cover photo tool" for us to use that could accomplish their desired results, instead of asking us to do so with very little guidance, hardly any examples of best practices, and with the promise that cover photo products get prioritization over products with out them... that does not lead to more sales.

While the ability to create cover photos is great!  I have not found the magic sauce that turns my efforts into more sales.  Not good for me or Zazzle.  And that reality makes bringing my artistic inspirations to life here ... something that has decreased in volume... and that is sad as I plan/planned on having Z income support my retirement... at some point in time, if my efforts continue trending they way they are, Z may have to be a much smaller portion of my long term goals...

I think a full fledged tool, created by Z, would reap much higher rewards for Z and for us.  Especially since we are being asked to create up to 10 images per product now.  I wouldn't remove the ability to create your own... but a tool that has 50 or so different options, perhaps with the ability to change background colors. text colors, etc...  We would then d/l and upload our selected/created mock ups ourselves...  That way, their doesn't need to be an overload of product views for the customer to look through too.  Sort of like a create tool for cover images... Maybe something can be incorporated into the existing create tool...idk...

I love Z and am disappointed in the path that seems to be trending for my sales and product creation.  I don't want to be read as blaming Z here, I am sharing my perspective and observations on how knowing that having a cover photo is going to be prioritized and my journey in figuring out how to create a cover image that leads to more sales generation...  So far it has been a flop... sadly...

So more guidance, coaching, or a dedicated tool would be really helpful, in my opinion.

Thanks for reading.

PC

.................................

[Barbara]

My experience has been similar to yours, @PacifierCity . All but one of my recent sales have been for items without covers.

One thing I've done is to totally separate creation hours from cover hours. Also, I've made my own templates for the products I choose to design on the most. A template takes quite a while to create, but after that, it makes covers much easier to design. Furthermore, I prefer, for the most part, "flat" presentation as opposed to placing a product in a scene. The latter takes so much more time to do that it ends up not being worth it. Maybe some of this will get you thinking about alternate methods.

Then there's the sense that Zazzle is demoting products, preferring to pick and choose by pushing all their Editor's Picks to the top pages. I understand featuring top sellers--a lot of online retailers do this, and with good reason--but page after page? It's utterly demoralizing.

Colorwash's Home

[PacifierCity]

@Barbara- I have spent hours trying to find the right image to place some of my products in "real insitu" scenes.  Those get almost no views.  I have also spent hours making more of an ad style cover... those seem to get a few views and maybe 1 - 2% of my last 100 sales.  So that is 1 or 2 sales tied to a product with a cover.  For the most part I haven't made covers for my best selling items and they continue to sell...

I have set up tests where I take similar products with similar themes with similar sales and or views and created a cover for one and not the other... no real difference in sales and or views...

I've looked at tons of covers in the MP and don't feel that alot of my attempts are far off the mark.  Others have similar covers and are ranked high in the MP where as mine aren't found... even after those with no cover.  Doesn't seem like my cover is receiving priority...

Maybe I'm choosing the wrong products to add covers to... maybe my covers are actually lousy... idk...

I may just make a bunch of products for awhile and forget about covers.  You don't really know if they are working unless you wait many months to see how they stew in the MP and internet land...

I have a hidden store with several hundred products, using Z in a way that no one else is doing at any sort of large level, and I haven't made another new product for it since cover photos became a thing.  It needs a few hundred more products before its ready for release... maybe I'll just focus on getting that store done so I can make everything public and not waste all that work...

idk we shall see what happens... even though I should do that I am not motivated too... especially knowing that they should all really have covers... oye!

PC

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[Barbara]

It's possible that Zazzle may find covers are good but not quite what they'd hoped. There's no way of knowing. What we as individuals can do is not stress so much over it, go back to doing what we do best, and create covers only where it makes the most sense.

Other than that, and when I shop, I buy or don't buy based on description and specs, so I'm a poor judge of pretty product pictures, which doesn't help when I'm asked to create such pictures.

Colorwash's Home