Synonyms, Tags, Template Text, and Searching within the Zazzle Marketplace
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02-20-2022 05:18 PM
Carried over from this thread in the Technical forum where meandering discussion is not allowed. Probably need to read that one first for this one to make any sense.
Did some more searching today and search is definitely including "grove" when the keyword is "orchard". And vice versa. This is true all across the MP, not just in wedding invitations. A search for [orchard wedding invitations] brings up the same 13K+ results as [grove wedding invitations] and in the exact same order up to about the 25th result on page one. After that, you still see all the same items but their order is slightly shifted here and there. Same with the roughly 3K results searching either [orchard wall art] or [grove wall art]. Same product results, the order is just slightly shifted the further into them you get.
In looking at the results, the majority I clicked on had [grove] somewhere in the tags, title, or template text but did not use [orchard] anywhere. Those that used [orchard] were mostly vintage fruit shipping labels or designs in that vein. (Which makes sense since that's actually the difference - an orchard is a grove specifically made up of fruit/nut trees.) I'm sure they're out there but of the results I clicked on, not a one used BOTH [orchard] and [grove] in their tags. Interesting.
If your design includes, say, a bunch of elm trees, you wouldn't use [orchard] as a tag as it's then technically incorrect. However, if you can rightfully use [orchard] as a tag then [grove] is also a very legit tag. And although [grove] definitely proves to be the more popular word here (maybe it just sounds more pleasant/romantic than orchard?), I didn't find any result where the designer thought to use both. Huh. So I guess what I am thinking is, don't overlook synonyms in your tags, guys. That one word could be the difference in getting found or not. (In this case of orchard/grove, search picks up either for either, but that's an anomaly.)
But the main thing I am thinking now is -
what other word pairs might be out there that Z search is treating the same way?
The other part of this is place-holder template text being included in search. I'm sure Z has a good reason for letting that happen but it definitely mucks up results with completely irrelevant designs. I think most of it is innocent but at the same time I think some have caught on to this and use it to advantage. It's like getting extra tags in your listing and you can't be called out for tag-spam if they're irrelevant because hey, 1st Street or Christmas Lane or Coconut Grove are just parts of my sample template text ....
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02-20-2022 08:14 PM
I would LOVE it if Zazzle could give us more information on this topic. I know that I don't need to include plurals, but other permutations of words are much murkier. Here's an abbreviated list of words I struggle with - do I need to include both, or is one sufficient?
- gray and grey
- gold and golden
- elegant and elegance
- classic and classy
- minimal and minimalist
- light and pale
- ivory and cream
- frills and frilly
- and on and on and on...
I also don't understand the logic of using words that don't describe your product. Why would you want to show up in irrelevant searches?
Cat @ ZB Designs
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02-21-2022 10:12 AM
There is no firm rule that I can see. The only way to find out is by experiment. Put both words in the search bar and see if they bring up the same products. I ran this experiment with the first three pairs in your list. Gray and grey are treated differently. So are gold and golden (the former bringing up gold things that Zazzle sells as well as gold designs) but elegant and elegance are apparently interchangeable.
It's an experiment I run whenever I'm debating if I should use two similar tags. In doing this so many times I haven't found any pattern and it really needs to be on a case by case basis.
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02-21-2022 10:23 AM
You guys are so smart! It never occurred to me to actually run a test!
Cat @ ZB Designs
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02-23-2022 02:53 AM - edited 02-23-2022 02:56 AM
Great answer. I often post similar items and change the words slightly in the vain hope it get found on at least one or the other search and the collection shows up at the bottom when clicked on my item to get the other similar designed products in front of the potential customers. After ten years you would think I would have worked things out better... but it is still hit and miss I just increase my chances by mixing the tags up. ColsCreations I have to thank you took me all day but managed my links thanks to you amazingly useful post ❤️ Thank you so much coding is not my strong point but I got there in the end coildn't have done this without your codes x
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02-21-2022 04:26 AM
Zazzle uses synonyms?! The thing about synonyms, just as you noted, Col, is that they're similar but are often not interchangeable.
I had no idea that template text is included in search terms,, but it may answer the periodic question of how on earth completely unrelated designs periodically show up when I'm running a search. I never thought to look at text as the possible culprit.
I've had the same puzzles as you, Cat. The worst for me has been music/musical/musician. The three have the same root word, but are root words picked up in the search, and if so, can't they muck up the works? Off the top of my head: bell, belle, belladonna, belly, bellflower, bellhop, etc. If someone is searching for church bells, will they come across an old poster for a hotel featuring a bellhop?
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02-21-2022 08:32 AM
The thing about synonyms, just as you noted, Col, is that they're similar but are often not interchangeable.
And in a case like @Anne , her actual orchard designs get crowded out in the results by the more popular keyword, grove, even when the searcher specifically uses orchard not grove. Frustrating for the designer and not helpful for the customers who really do want just orchard related stuff.
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07-01-2022 06:04 AM
Barb said, "I had no idea that template text is included in search terms,, but it may answer the periodic question of how on earth completely unrelated designs periodically show up when I'm running a search. I never thought to look at text as the possible culprit."
I remembered noticing that happened years ago BUT totally forgot about it until mentioned here. I guess that I hadn't noticed it recently.
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07-01-2022 05:11 AM - edited 07-01-2022 05:50 AM
I just had a design deleted for using Bohemian and Grove in the tags or description but I don't think the two words were placed together at least not on purpose. I don't know for sure because it was deleted before I was able to check. So be careful not to put these two words on the same product. Maybe I did have them together. But I would have never thought of putting them together as a phrase. It was an unfortunate accident resulting in the deletion of that product.
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07-01-2022 08:04 AM
I would have put them together, having no idea until I googled just now that this is a men's club. Who knew? Not me.
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07-01-2022 01:23 PM
Me either. Seems strange that they would even care if someone selling stationery used the tag.

