Questions about marketing fees

[Van]

1. If a customer searches or browses the Zazzle marketplace and buys a product, it that purchase subject to the new marketing fee? (Say they typed zazzle.com into their browser, did NOT get to the website by following any link)

2. Also, items promoted/advertised/suggested etc. from the landing page for Zazzle.com, are they subject to the fee? For example the "new on zazzle" or "shop our top gifting ideas", if a customer clicks on , say "gifts under $50", orders a product from there, is there a fee?

I see a good many designers commenting that since the changes 3rd party sales have greatly increased so I was wondering...So much info overall about these changes, I'm unsure if these questions have been asked.

[Sara_H · Accepted solution]

@Van 

1. Yes (unless they have cookies blocked in their browser) they'll get a cookie from zazzle and if they buy something of yours and they haven't come through someone else's link - the 3rd party referral will be zazzle and you'll get charged a marketing fee (depending on the department your product is in)

https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/30810357489175-Ambassador-Referral-Commissions-Creator-Roy...

2. Yes - See 1

[Van]

I thought that is how it might go. That explains why people say so many more of their sales are now 3rd party. Maybe it's always been that way but not so painful b/c the clawback was less.

It's probably coincidence but since back when they asked us to create mockups for products, advertise more, etc. both my views and sales dropped a lot and Since April 1st they are even worse. I really like the selection of product Z has for us to design on and am not "giving up", will still design some here but in light of this "pay cut" I'm having to rethink how much time I can- literally- afford to spend working on my Z store. 😞 I'll definitely avoid the 50% bracket as much as possible, 35% is bad enough. I hate this, Z had always been my favorite pod.

[Sara_H]

@Van  Yep - you have to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze

[CrazyMermaid]

It is my understanding that they have more ways to track customer activity than just "cookies." There are other more reliable tracking mechanisms that affiliate program rely on to ensure that affiliates get their commissions. No professional affiliates would participate in a program that used cookies alone. 

[Sara_H]

@CrazyMermaid  I know my terminology is incorrect. Thanks!

[Connie]

@Sara_HThat shouldn't be the case, though. If a customer comes directly to Zazzle without clicking on any marketing link, that should be "None." Zazzle shouldn't put their 3rd party cookie (or other tracking mechanisms) on that order when they didn't do any marketing for it.
(I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm just saying that it's wrong on Zazzle's end.)

[ColsCreations]

Once people are on the Zazzle site, it doesn't matter what they look at on-site before buying. What matters is how they entered the site and what, if any, "cookie" they picked up doing so. If they somehow got here as a NONE, they'll stay as a NONE during their session. The whole referral system is built on tracking external links that bring people into Zazzle. I have a lot of questions about NONE but that's for another day; I would be legit shocked if NONE visitors were somehow picking up Z as 3rd Party from within the site during their session.

[DesertSky]

So, the answer to all my questions is "yes"—basically, every purchase is charged a marketing fee. All that matters is whether you clicked a link to get to Zazzle. Honestly, I think it goes beyond clicking a link.

Bottom line: I wanted to know how to get a "None" sale instead of a 3rd-party referral. My questions stemmed from the fact that I have a friend who likes to send cards and occasionally orders from me. Prior to April 1st, when she ordered, the sales always came across as "None" since she didn't click a link but went directly to my store. Since April 1st, the sales have come across as 3rd Party.

The first time it happened, I thought maybe she had clicked on something and picked up a cookie, so I told her to clear her cookies and cache before ordering. It didn't help. It still came across as a 3rd-party sale, even though she went directly to my store after clearing cookies, put items in her cart, and checked out. So, it seems to me that there is literally no way to ever avoid a marketing fee—even if you go directly to the store.

She even tried blocking cookies for Zazzle, but then it wouldn't let her sign in. I'm convinced that 99.9% of all sales will always be 3rd-party and charged a marketing fee, no matter what. The mystery remains on how to get a "None" sale because it seems literally impossible.

[Windy]

One of the mods recently made a comment buried inside of a thread. I think she was maybe possibly perhaps saying that the tracking now follows every internet access point you have. It used to be you could just clear cookies on one computer. 

[DesertSky]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. It seems to confirm that it's nearly impossible to avoid a marketing fee. If we ever happen to get a "None" sale, it's almost like winning the lottery—because the odds are nearly about the same.

[ColsCreations]

I repeatedly read over your specific questions above but was struggling with how to parse and possibly answer. 🙁
I, too, have a lot of questions about how something now ends up NONE and have been feeling like it's going to be a very rare occurrence. But I got a nice sale on 4/14 that somehow came through as NONE with net earnings that made me quite happy. Then on 4/27 I had a sale come through as a Self-Promoted referral one so blow me over! No idea how that happened either.
If we are looking at all this as just the Designer and not also the Referrer/Affiliate who gets some back as referral commission, NONE is the most profitable situation. But it's very unclear how NONE sales happen and that's aggravating to say the least.

[DesertSky]

I'm sorry if my response came across as harsh—that wasn't my intent at all. I appreciate you trying to figure out how to answer my questions; I know they were very specific and not easy! I was just thinking of different scenarios and what would or wouldn't generate a marketing fee. This has just become so complicated, it boggles the mind. It's like a cr*p shoot—you never know what you're going to get or how you got it.

Now throw in the latest reveal that they're doing dynamic pricing...that's another blow. Now, even the royalty we choose doesn't mean a whole lot when the prices keep changing. The one thing that is clear is that the odds are not in our favor.

Congrats, though, on your Self-Promoted referral—that's amazing! Another mystery that's like hitting the lottery! I guess we just have to enjoy those little and very rare wins.

[ColsCreations]

Harsh? I'm sorry, there was nothing wrong with your post! I just meant, you raised a very interesting question but A) I wasn't sure if I understood you right and B) I had no answers even if I did.

Someone coming in on a "clean" link for Designer A and buying from Designer B ...
We know Designer A gets no referral commission $. I don't know if it still happens but at one time, Designers in the Promoter Program would see $0 referrals where their credits number would go up but not their dollar amounts because while they weren't eligible to earn any commission on the sale because it wasn't their product, the system still knew they were technically the referrer. 
So if someone comes in on Designer A's clean link and buys X from Designer B, what does Designer B see on their end for X? It's actually a referred sale but since the Referrer isn't getting a commission on it, was it / is it being registered as a None or a 3rd party? This is a record keeping / reporting issue. Reporting it as None wouldn't be technically correct and would be misleading to Designers taking that as meaning the sale was organic, but there is no means in the system yet to show a sale as 3rd Party referred without it also deducting the referral carve-out fee.

I have absolutely no idea how Zazzle was/is handling this situation but with what we have seen in other threads re the VB page still recording mysterious amounts we're guessing are other people's products and the surge in 3rd Party sales so many are reporting with None being a rarity now, it does raise questions. Hopefully Zazzle can tell us which way they are reporting these sales as - None or 3rd Party, and hopefully the new earnings reports promised will have a new category for such sales - 3rd Party but no carve-out since the 3rdP wasn't eligible for the commission.

[Deb1]

No worries not harsh at all. This whole thing is a mess. I'm actually working more on another site making more money.  Just play with this site until they change their profits for us. Not posting my best here until changes are made. It's a shame because I do like Zazzle and their products but not enough to waste my good stuff. 

[Windy]

I have seen all the questions being asked. I have not seen Zazzle answer these at all.

It would be nice if Zazzle would spell things out because designers are not understanding what is happening. And affiliators have no idea if there is any point in promoting any products because it's unclear where the referral fees go. Creators have tested this among themselves and have reported they do not get a referral on sales they have referred to other creators.

[DesertSky]

I'm still unclear on a few things also, so please forgive me if these have already been asked and answered, I would just appreciate clarification. Here are my questions:

1.) Does every purchase made from a clicked link (even if it's not the product that was promoted) generate a 35-50% marketing fee that's deducted from the product creator, for up to 45 days? In other words, am I correct that every existing link is a marketing link and there is no way to avoid a marketing fee if the purchaser arrives at Zazzle through a link?

2.) If we email a product link to someone, will that also generate the marketing fee?

3.) If we create a link to a collection rather than to a product, and a customer purchases something from the collection or from a different creator, does that also generate the 35-50% marketing fee to the product creator?

ETA:

4.) What if the link was created by someone who isn't in the affiliate program, does Zazzle still apply the marketing fee?  

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

[Deb1]

The fees are too high that is crazy 

[wpl]

Why is zazzle not responding? 

[Deb1]

Hopefully thinking it over and changing it. It's a shame Zazzle is a really cool site they will destroy Zazzle with how things are being done now.

[Deb1]

I used to see commercials for Zazzle on TV and noticed views and sales go up. I think they stopped promoting and marketing you got to get your name out there. Zazzle commercials were really done well, and a cool thing made it a popular site to shop. I hope they reconsider their marketing. 

[socialitedesign]

I hardly ever come across Zazzle promotions online anymore. These days, I mostly see ads for Temu, VistaPrint, Etsy, and Minted. It makes me question how Zazzle is actually marketing its platform while still charging us the marketing fee—is this a genuine promotional effort, or just an attempt to offset declining sales? If they are only promoting a small faction of designers, then it should be those designers who should be responsible for paying the marketing fee.

[Heather]

@Van Referred Sales are tracked based on how the Customer arrives at Zazzle—whether through your Self-Promotion Links, a Zazzle advertisement, or other sources. Referrals are tracked using cookies and other technologies lasting 45 days. If someone purchases within 45 days after clicking your Link (and has not clicked another Referral Link since then), you earn the Referral Commission. With the launch of the Ambassador Program, we’ve extended the referral window to two weeks, meaning you’ll receive credit for any qualifying sales that happen within 14 days of someone clicking your Referral Link. This is a meaningful improvement: the majority of Zazzle shoppers make a purchase within this extended timeframe, so your efforts are protected for longer. After two weeks, if a customer clicks another referral link, that new link becomes the active referral, and commission credit will be reassigned accordingly.

[Deb1]

No matter what I lose 

[Deb1]

I lose when I waste my time for a short period of time too profit 45 days. I lose when someone takes a sale from under me. It takes a lot of time to post on sites it is not just a snap of the fingers and its done. I lose by allowing someone to make 15% off my hard work which took my time and effort to create, post not only on Zazzle but to promote to a site and I only make pennies. I don't even make 15% of the sale. The only one making profit on this is not me.  Not only that someone is making a profit for work they have not even done it is my work not fair to me. Zazzle is going to go out of business with these policies. Artist and designers will just quit its simply not worth their time and effort. I hope Zazzle thinks this over and changes their policies. It is not working in anyone's interest. 

[Windy]

I am thinking maybe you would win if you would print and produce your own products and sell them at art fairs. 

[Deb1]

Thank you for your advice it just simply does not work for me. I am a soon to be a 69-year-old heart patient and I live in Florida heat is not my friend it was 97 degrees today in the shade. I cannot do a day in the heat in Florida at an art fair and quite frankly art fairs are dying most people are buying online.  My hopes where Zazzle would be profitable. I am on other sites and make money, so it is what it is just not going to put that much effort on Zazzle unfortunately that is disappointing to me because I do like Zazzle and the variety of products they have. Just very disappointed in how they structured how they pay the artist, and designers we basically make very little money very disappointed.  Someone can basically just take my artwork or designs makes more money than me just for posting it how sad makes me sick. I hope Zazzle realizes they are making a mistake and changes this policy they will put themselves out of business. Not to mention artists rights.

[Deb1]

I do not understand why Zazzle just doesn't charge a yearly fee of say $30.00 per account and do away with the fees altogether. Out of the $30.00 per account a year pay for the advertising and promote all of us on automatic uploads to Pinterest and other sites on our behalf. We get our full percent, no one is grabbing our art and designs and posting them and making more profit than the artist and designers do. Zazzle makes money and so does the people (artist and designers) who actually do the work. Alot of time and effort going into our work we should benefit. I was impressed when I first saw Zazzle everything it did was to show it was the best, the biggest no one could compare Zazzle please relook at what you are doing and find a better way of doing it. You have a fantastic site, good products just need to rethink it. Best of luck.

[Deb1]

Could you imagine Zazzle and Pinterest teamed up on advertising. It would create larger than life marketing.