Conversations With A SCAMMER - Have you been contacted?

[CreativeLeahG]

Details forwarded to Zazzle

I seem to be getting a few of these of late, if you are too, forward the details to Zazzle support.

Note: The conversation is ongoing....

[CreativeLeahG]

This was another similar query Friday - also reported to Zazzle

[Connie]

I know everyone has different ideas for how they want their products to be used, but I’m curious why you don’t allow commercial use? I would LOVE to have an event planner or some other commercial vendor pick up my products and order them for their clients!  ( Or did you just say that to this particular scammer to scare them off?)

[CreativeLeahG]

yes I said it to scare them off. I've also been contacted via FB. They want the tracking numbers.

[idraw]

Remember that this is now a public forum, so the "scammer/s" can read everything that is posted here, unfortunately for us as SKs.

[Connie]

I didn’t even know that was a “thing!” What do they do with the tracking numbers?

[SORS]

I'll attach a chat message I received today.  I believe this also was a scam and they specifically asked for the tracking number. 

<Moderator edit #1: Image removed by moderator because it contained the user's full name. Please do not post images that contain names.>

<Moderator edit #2: I've added the image again, this time with the name censored. This is not something we will be able to help with in every situation, but wanted to help share this information here.

[Sandra-]

I’ve also received a couple of these messages in the last few days, virtually the same wording as this. It seemed like an odd request especially as I know I’m not delivering this service to his colleague as he implied (or to anyone else) so I advised I couldn’t personally help and referred them to customer services. 

[CreativeLeahG]

I have just deleted an invitation that seems to be being used as part of some scam. Single sales on the daily .... reported to Zazzle. 

Please if any other sellers are seeing this activity, let us know here. so we can see the scale of this?

[CrazyMermaid]

I don't engage with this. I told the person I only work on Zazzle. Period. They could order anything they wanted off of the site. Then I sent the details to customer service and moved on. I would never ever delete a product because of this. I am sure Zazzle can handle it. I have not heard from then again. 

[CreativeLeahG]

I deleted the design incase they're using automated software for the scam.

[Connie]

It sounds like maybe they are some sort of “dropshipper” for wedding invitations or something. So they would get orders through Etsy or their own website, customize your invitation for each client, then have Zazzle send it directly to the client. I would just direct them right to Zazzle customer service. (That also could explain multiple singles sent to different addresses-samples sent to prospective clients.)

[CreativeLeahG]

Based on another communication, I am pretty sure this is a scam. There are various postal scams circulating, having the tracking info is what they're after.

[Cat]

Gosh, I don't even understand the question! "Cards in bulk on different locations" I don't know what that means, and I don't have a clue what they're asking about "capacity" - like are they asking how many you can print?

I think my response would have been something on the order of:

"Thanks so much for your interest in my design. I'm not entirely sure that I understand your question, but the way Zazzle works, we designers only create the artwork/digital templates - Zazzle handles all orders, printing, and shipping, so I think you probably need to contact their customer support department for help. If you need help customizing one of my templates, let me know and I'm happy to assist."

And then I would have sent them a link to support. In general, I just try not to engage with anything that seems "off."

[idraw]

Good advice--"try not to engage with anything that seems "off."

I agree.

[CreativeLeahG]

I wanted then to admit they were not an actual customer ordering these items for themselves for an event. Hence I engaged. After they responded I directed the chat message to Zazzle via report function and emailed them. Had I not engaged there would have been nothing at all to report. 

[Cat]

You're braver than I am! I have a somewhat irrational fear of making the scammer angry. Not sure what they could possibly do to me, but I guess I'm just paranoid.

[CreativeLeahG]

I understand very well your concern and indeed, I had the same thoughts but I strongly felt something wasn't right and felt I had to get confirmation from them. It didn't make sense them being a dropshipper, not for the same invite multiple times a day to different addresses. A genuine customer saving on wedding postage yes .... but they themselves ruled that out.

At the very least. I think it can be dealt with as breach of the Zazzle Black terms as Scott mentioned. I wasn't aware of that term previously and it is a good one to have in place!! And perhaps Zazzle can forward the details of whatever fraud depts there are for them to investigate re innocent people losing funds on orders they never receive as per the 'tracking code' scam. Palava ... it has been a very eventful weekend here for so many reasons, not just this. 

It all happens at once, doesn't it. Anyway, glad it is all being handled. I look forward for the first time ever to seeing a lot of lovely red canceled boxes!

[Scott]

Not everyone speaks English fluently, so I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that someone is necessarily a scammer. It's entirely possible that what they're trying to ask was lost in translation.

As always, if you feel uncomfortable with an interaction in Chat you can report the user.

[CreativeLeahG]

There's more to this Scott, I was also contacted via FB, I am 100% certain this is part of a scam. What they want is the tracking numbers. This is what I was told on FB. 3 different people now are making these orders for the same invite, every day, multiple items to many addresses. There are scams that are based on sending low cost items, (not ordered) to various addresses, hence this needs to be investigated. All of this information has been passed to Zazzle and they have already canceled some orders. 

And their English is just fine, especially regard to FB comms. They wanted me to be the one placing the orders in that instance. It is no coincidence I was asked to participate in some 'venture' for these sales to begin appearing on my account. I do not want my products being used in such a manner.

I am asking if others have had these messages to assess the scale of the problem. 

[Scott]

What you're seeing is very likely Zazzle Black abuse, which is against the rules. I've forwarded these on to be investigated. If you see activity like this in the future then please let us know, but I don't think that it's worth deleting your products over.

[CreativeLeahG]

I have forwarded a copy of the messages I got on FB as you can see they do not care 'what product is being sent'. 

[idraw]

Scott, That's the way I was interpreting the interaction. The person probably got frustrated because he was not able to communicate his requirements to the SK. The end of the convo suggested that he seemed frustrated and was not getting the answers he expected.

To clarify whether it is a tracking scam--

Could Zazzle reach out to him? It was chat, so Z hopefully has the email info or member name to be able to contact him.

[CrazyMermaid]

That is exactly the scenario that I forwarded to Customer Service several days ago. (I have seen Youtube gurus suggesting that people should use Zazzle for drop shipping the way they use other platforms.) The person who contacted me also said I needed to provide tracking numbers. Like I told them, they have to deal with customer service. I don't understand why you felt you needed to delete the product. It was Innocent!

[CreativeLeahG]

I deleted it because if they are genuine customers, they will contact me wondering where it went. 

[Thunes_Designs]

I have also been asked to provide tracking codes. From one saying he’s a reseller and needs 10-100 cards per day

[CreativeLeahG]

Please pass the details to Zazzle team. Thank you

[CreativeLeahG]

This could be the scam?

Hence the need for tracking codes?
https://eu.freep.com/story/money/personal-finance/susan-tompor/2019/12/12/tracking-code-paypal-scam-...

@Thunes_Designs @CrazyMermaid @Scott @Cat @Connie 

[Scott]

Not at all. That article is describing a scenario where a company is accepting orders, but never delivering a product to the customer. This is not what's happening here.

[CreativeLeahG]

If the customer orders and pays for a Television  - the scammer doesn't send a tv but sends a card (Zazzlecard)- the customer does not relate the card to the TV.

The customer complains to PayPal, the tv was not delivered, the scammer produces a tracking number to say it was delivered. The company gets to keep the money paid for the TV (when all they sent was a card).

I am assuming that this is how this scam works. 

There are many such scams, as the person in FB noted, they only want the tracking numbers and the product itself could be anything as long as it was cheap.

That is not to say though the purchases I am noticing are related at all to this FB communication (which other members have noted they have also received) it is just VERY coincidental re the time frame.

Scammer FB request I rec'd when this started:

"We need thank you cards on daily basis shipped to different addresses in the USA. We'll be doing it 100-200/month initially. Then it can go to 500-1000.

Can you please tell would you be able to do that?
We want just tracking of those thank you cards on daily basis. We will give you the address and you'll send there a thank you card and will give us tracking to that card."

[Scott]

Ah, I see what you're getting at. Thanks for clarifying.

[CreativeLeahG]

If it wasn't for the Fb message, I'd honestly have no clue what this was all about. I just had a 'hunch' it wasn't legit. 

[catinarezi]

OMG, I'm shocked. People are nasty...

[catinarezi]

One more question: Do we, as designers, have access to those tracking numbers? I'm not finding them. Maybe I'm a bit of a noob. 🙈

[Cat]

I think Leah @CreativeLeahG may be onto something. Maybe the scammer has some sort of bogus website where they're selling fake items that aren't related to Zazzle at all, and the only thing they're trying to get from Z is a legitimate tracking code to fool their "customers" (AKA "marks") into thinking that something has actually been shipped.

I don't actually know the details of how tracking codes work, but I just went to FedEx and entered a tracking code for the last package I had delivered. It doesn't give specific addresses, just the city and state, so if the scammer had Zazzle ship something to an address in the same city as the person being scammed, then they could then give their "mark" a tracking code that would look completely legit, and the mark would have no way of knowing that the tracking code didn't apply to their fake purchase at all.

Honestly, it seems like a LOT of trouble to go to just to get your hands on a tracking code, but maybe if the bogus things they're selling have high prices then it works out for them? If that's what's happening, I think @Scott's assessment that it's Zazzle Black abuse would probably be correct. In any case, there's not much we as designers can do about it other than to report suspicious activity to Zazzle, and I totally agree with @CrazyMermaid that you shouldn't have had to delete your product! That part makes me sad.

[CreativeLeahG]

The product in question had low sales until these persons gave it a boost. I am not at all concerned about deleting the item. I feel it is a good way to ascertain if they're a genuine customer. I did recreate it... so if I am wrong, the same design still exists. 

[Windy]

There is an article which describes something like this. I am amazed that the people are admitting to ONLY WANTING the TRACKING NUMBER. I betcha that the scammers hire other people to provide them with hundreds of valid tracking numbers. A lot of this crime is not done just by one person, but by one thief contracting out portions of the workload to others. If this IS a scam, then the people buying the single invites may not even understand why they are being paid to find valid tracking numbers.

''Some scam victims report filing claims with PayPal in order to get a refund. PayPal's protection promisesays customers can open a dispute if the package never arrives, if the item received is counterfeit or differs significantly from what was ordered. However, not all claims were resolved to the buyer’s satisfaction. For example, one shopper reported the following experience after ordering a desk online and filing a dispute though PayPal. “I was contacted by PayPal and told they had found in favor of the seller. They had apparently received confirmation of delivery of said desk to my house according to the tracking number… PayPal did not give me any option to discuss their decision, to argue why they found in favor of the seller. They just closed the case.”

https://www.bbb.org/article/scams/21097-scam-alert-tracking-code-trick-costs-online-shoppers

According to the article, shipping carriers were having their tracking codes stolen and have tightened up policies to prevent this from happening. Maybe the same thieves are now using this "buy a tracking code" method to buy tracking codes cheaply, probably using Zazzle Black. 

Zazzle needs to get on top of this.

[CreativeLeahG]

Yes... 

I am relieved it is being dealt with. Meanwhile, if others come forward with similar experiences, if anything is occurring, hopefully, it can be nipped right in the bud. 

[idraw]

Your title "Conversations with a Scammer" would make for a good movie title. Or a documentary. I liked it. Writing might be a sideline to consider.

[Windy]

I have just been spending the afternoon (while I am sick with a nasty cold and unable to do much else) watching scammers getting scammed and or exposed on YouTube. Extremely entertaining stuff. There are hundreds of these scammer Youtubes.