Selling the rights to your Artwork? What would you/do you charge?

[ShadoWind]

I've gotten a few messages in the past asking me about  this....I've always turned it down as It makes me VERY wary to sell the rights to my artwork....

AND I've never done it before...I wouldn't even Begin to know what price to ask???  

Anyways I recently got this message:

"Hey Shadowind! We are Fantastical Tigers, a husband and wife musical duo from Tampa, FL. We came across your Fate in the Stars Tigers design and were wondering what you would charge for a hi-res .png that we could put on merchandise (like shirts) to sell at our live shows. We have a print fulfillment company already that does all our merch so all we would need is the raw file and the rights to use it. And we would of course give you a shout-out on our social media and refer our fans to your site every time someone buys the shirt!"

I guess this time around I am tempted (I've never had a musical team ask before and I guess the idea of my art being associated with music and being sold at concerts and things appeals to me) ....  Also not being employed at any sort of "real" job at the moment makes me a little bit more eager to grab at opportunities like this...

But at the same time..... maybe not too eager! LOL.....Because I also wouldn't want to stop selling this design myself on my POD shops!.. I don't like the idea of losing the rights to my own artwork ....and I had plans for that particular design to give as a reward for backing me on Patreon (in the future when I re-open it).... Also...How much will they make selling my art on their shirts???? How would I even be able to determine what to charge them when I have no idea how much they will make off of my design? 

If I Do do this I think I would definitively make out some paper work for them to sign saying exactly what rights they have ( maybe JUST rights to print on T-Shirts) does that sound right?

Anyways Love to hear opinions/advice? 

And if you have ever sold the rights to your art and are willing to share...how much did/do you charge? Did you feel cheated or did it seem worth while? What would you do?

[PenguinPower · Accepted solution]

The band looks legit.... as far as pricing goes, that's a trickier question. I wouldn't consider any less than an established stock agency would charge (so no less than about $200-400, around what you'd pay at Alamy or Getty) and perhaps up to about $300X the number of hours it took you to create. If you aren't giving exclusive rights and will get some possible advertising out of it, then you might think about the lower end of the scale. If they want more exclusivity (like say, they don't want you to sell your own tees too) then go higher. 

I've never sold a piece of art in that particular manner.... but I have done a bit of freelancing - I was working for lawyers taking medical images for their court cases and occasionally for doctors outside of my own facility doing medical illustrations. . It was some years ago, probably close to 15 or so now...., so prices would be higher these days, but I used to charge a minimum of $100 and $50/hr thereafter with travel time charged, which even then was actually pretty inexpensive (yes... I'm a softie, I knew that the expense would be passed on to the client, who was already hurt or being charged to a physician who had a measly grant to pay for sundries).

[ShadoWind]

thanks that's really helpful!!!

[Malissa]

There are certain pieces of art that I think I have more of an attachment to than others, so I think depending on the piece I would have a hard time giving up rights to my own piece.  Sounds like this might be one of those pieces for you.  I mean, a shout out at a concert isn't much in the way of a royalty.  If I were giving up exclusive rights it would be for a lot more than just a couple hundred dollars.  Musicians don't make a whole lot off of their music (although it might be getting better with more people self producing).  The bigger money comes with merch sales so I am not sure they would be willing to give up a portion of sales as royalty to you or maybe they just want to make a deal where you retain your rights, just give them rights as well.  If it were me, I would do a LOT of research in the next couple of days and make sure you get yourself a fair deal.  Especially since its not a piece you are creating for them and want to use for your own purposes.  Or see if you can create them a similar piece that is a little more customized that is exclusively theirs?  Just throwing stuff out there.

[ShadoWind]

Thanks Malissa, you make some really good points!

In fact I told them I wanted to do some research first and would get back to them since its something new to me that I don't normally do, they seemed very understanding about this so that's cool . They also mentioned they do not want exclusive rights, and that I would still retain my ownership of the design, they would only be selling it on shirts. I responded asking them if they would be willing to sign paperwork stating this...if they are, I think I may be willing to work out a deal with them, but I will probably do some more research and sleep on it before deciding anything.

[Windy]

When I sell my photos, I do not sell exclusive rights. I always quote a big number, and say there is a sizeable  discount if they buy it today.  So for a photo I sold for the cover of a fundraising initiative for a city redevelopment project, my price for that was 650, but with discount, they could have it for 425.00. They paid me immediately.

I did prepare a contract for this, spelling out all the terms and conditions.  You want a contract. You can probably find blanks online for this.

The amount of work you put in to making this should have no relation to your price, IMHO. I just think you want to charge the going rate. Be sure you know what that is before you make a deal. Also, they may well promote YOU, as they have said, but you will want to promote the fact that they are selling your design, because this could help you.  So you will want to mention something like Fantastical Tigers, a husband and wife musical duo from Tampa, FL on Twitter or Facebook or wherever you can and state something that indicates they are your customer, or "as featured by Fantastical Tigers, a husband and wife musical duo from Tampa, FL" or something. All that will be searchable and may bring a little more attention to your sites. And you can mention that a few times a year!

[WHS_Designs]

I would go the non-exclusive rights route because of course you would want to continue selling your amazing artwork on Zazzle, which is a 3000% improvement over what this musical team currently offers on their merch page. My first thought was well why wouldn't they buy straight from your Zazzle store?

And, if (big IF) they sell in large quantities, I would charge a flat fee (in the ballparks of what the previous Zazzle creators have suggested in this thread) + a royalty % based on the number of impressions sold (up to 1,000, up to 5,000, up to 10,000 etc., it's up to you to set the ranges).

Of course, these licensing terms would have to be spelled out in detail on the contract. 

Also, if they want to use your artwork on other merchandise (which it sounds like, judging by their MERCH — Fantastical Tigers merch page), you can also spell out in the contract what the fees are, depending on the size and media used (e.g. the fees for use on shirts should be more than those charged for say buttons but less than that for use on a shower curtain or a fully embroidered baseball cap). By licensing your artwork, they would also probably be changing the entire look of their website, too, to be consistent. So it's not just shirts and physical merchandise, but the digital aspect to consider, too.

I'm sure you already do this, but I would also make sure your copyright ((c) Shadowind or (c) Erin Cooper) is on every piece of artwork you create (and send out).

Also! You can also create reciprocal links/relationship with this musical team. In the same way that they would give a shout out to you and your artwork on merchandise they sell (since they have a website, they should also give you an ad spot on their website and the social media platforms they use to promote their work), you can also advertise this fact on your Zazzle and the social media platforms you use to promote your work. 

Have them formalize this business relationship with a press release on their website, which you can link to or add to your media section on Zazzle.

Here's an article that might help you.
What an Artist Needs to Know About Licensing Artwork (nilelivingston.com)

W.H.

[WittyBetty]

An alternative way would be to simply draw a new (maybe similar) artwork for them as a custom order with exclusive rights (because if they use your artwork for their merch then you selling it on PODs look problematic as it can become associated with that band at least amongst their fandom so I see a thin ice here). So that you don't give up on your existing artwork but create something specifically for them for a fair price and grant them exclusive rights to use it. I'd definitely suggest a custom project for them as an alternative. You can mention that if they like that existing artwork that much, you can create something similar for them (and I assume it would be easier for you; and no headache attached).

[ShadoWind]

Thanks for all the imput! @Windy @WHS_Designs i'm definately gonna check out that link later when my brain is more awake! @WittyBetty  That might be a thought. I asked them about their budget they mentioned their normal price range for a deal like this is $50-$100 because they only ever manage to sell a few shirts at each of their shows and if they pay more then that they end up not making any money either....so I don't think they plan on selling a HUGE number of shirts or anything. I don't think they are like a big name in the music industry or anything, they strike me a small time indie band, so I'm guessing they don't have a lot of money to throw at this. But from everything everyone has told me (both here and some of my other art friends I asked) that is a very low offer.... some of my other friends suggested I put a limit on the amount of shirts they can print into the contract, and to make sure I have my logo or name somewhere on the design which both sound like good ideas as well....and then if they want to sell more after that they could pay more to re-new the contract.  I like your idea too WittyBetty about offering something unique just for them...that way maybe they wouldn't mind a higher price? Anyways I'm pretty tired so I'm gonna sleep on it and I will think about it more  later 😁 I really appreciate all the help!!💜

[Windy]

They don't have the budget. I would not sell to them. Your work is worth what your work is worth. NOT the 50-100 dollars which they happen to want to pay you. 

Quote them a true value price. Maybe they will pay. If they don't want to pay a fair figure, these people should not be your buyer.

I would also avoid tying your deal to a certain limit of shirts. Who is going to keep track of that? No one. You do not have the resources to supervise their accounting of shirt sales.

[WittyBetty]

$50-100, however small the business is, isn't even close to the fair price if exclusive rights are attached.

I doubt they would agree to pay anything above this amount. But if they agree, I think the only way to make it work AND avoid any headache is creating a custom artwork for them. I could suggest another alternative: you LICENSE them an existing .png for printing on merch without any exclusive rights (that means, you continue using your artwork for commercial purposes as you please). This way you just gain some $100 in addition to what this artwork has already earned and is going to earn in the future. BUT in this case (a .png with no exclusive rights) they can use it ONLY for their merch but not for their website or social media (it's important) and as Windy mentioned, you have no control over how they use the file and no options to enforce the contractual use (except a lawsuit which you of course won't do). So there's some risk of unfair use of your pic but maybe you can take it.

As to asking them to put your logo/website on their merch, there will be no outcome whatsoever so I wouldn't bother with that either.

I see your dilemma and I understand you; my summary would be, either a unique artwork just for them + exclusive rights for a price you consider fair (unlikely to happen) or LICENSING (not selling) the .png for printing on physical merch with no rights to use it for any other representation of the band. I think the latter is quite likely to happen.

[ShadoWind]

Thanks that is pretty much exactly what was going through my head! I'm thinking that is what I will do is offer them those options for them. I really appreciate everyone's advice and feedback here on the forums ❤️ you are all great! ❤️

[CatsEyeViewGift]

my question is how would you ever know how many shirts they print or sell? 

[shellifitz]

exactly, that is why I like the way the FAA licenses are set up for a time period with unlimited prints during that time or they also have a template that adds to the price for more than 10,000 copies and they can choose how many they need.  

[BCasTal]

I visited your store and it seems you have some very nice work! Providing it is original work, done by you, you might consider registering them as an NFT. (non- fungible token) This is a new concept to me, and none of my work is worthy, but registered NFT's can bring some big $.  Google "what is an NFT" to learn more and get more information. Heady new stuff, but it might be worth it for someone with your talent.

[ShadoWind]

I've heard of N/f/Ts and I can't say that I'm for them from what I've heard. I would strongly advise caution in getting into anything involved with them to be perfectly honest! First off a lot of artists get their work stolen by people selling them...I for one have already had one of my dragon works stolen from a N/f]T site and had to report it to google to get the image removed (this worked mostly the art got removed although the listing was still up)  Still its a major pain in the rear! Also I've noted many of the artists I respect and follow are avidly against them for 2 major reasons 1. They are widely looked at as a pyramid scheme that in the end the artist profits very little from and 2 The blockchains that store info for these "tokens" are a huge energy drain and very bad for the environment. Now this is strictly my own personal opinion and I don't want to get into any arguments about this as I know the whole subject is rather controversial...I'm just putting out there what I have heard other places...and my reasoning behind them not being my cup of tea... I would much rather support other independent creators at a low price anyways than try to get some millionaire to invest in ownership of a artwork without actually even buying the original work.

[BCasTal]

Interesting. Unfortunately I think this might be the way of the future. It will be fun to watch and see how this all plays out. Thank you though, for your valuable input.

[shellifitz]

I would not sell the rights.  I would offer them a rights managed license which allows them rights to use your artwork for packaging (or a product)  for a specified amount of time.   I have licensing set up with fineartamerica for packaging that allows them to use the image for 2 years on a physical or digital product and print an unlimited number of copies within the time allowed.  Then if they need more they need to renew the license.   My pricing goes by the long size of the image.  for instance... if the image is 4400x3600 px  I charge $450 for a 2 year license.   The license is only for one product package such as one CD cover etc...   These licenses are pre written templates (FAA adds a flat rate charge for managing the license to my price)  but you can draw up your own contract.  I am just giving you some examples, I am not a lawyer or giving legal advice.  just ideas.   good luck! 

[ShadoWind]

❤️ thanks so much!!! really useful info!! ❤️

[shellifitz]

One more thing... I never sell Royalty free licenses because it sells your rights.  They can do anything they want.  If I did the price would be very high.  

[Phrosne_Ras_Des]

Hi. Just a quick note. Only you can determine the value of your artwork and you can never work at a hourly rate. Read @Windy comments as this is all really great advice. To licence anything with a buyer becomes very complicated as contracts are very NB. The "Band" might or might not have the funds available, this isn't your problem. You know your arts worth and that is how you charge "set the standard now". A lot of the info above is very helpful, but you need to read carefully. Most buyers will never ask for full rights or the artist would charge a huge amount. This is a good start and good luck, I suggest you read more about contracts and licensing before you sign away your artwork for $300.00 - but again everything might depend on your or the situation, it's all relative.