Would you buy Zazzle stock?

[Windy]

Looks like Zazzle might turn into a public company soon. Would you buy Zazzle stock? Why or why not? 

QUOTE

Zazzle Inc., an online marketplace for customized items, has hired Citigroup Inc. and Barclays Plc to prepare for an initial public offering this year, according to people familiar with the matter.

The company is seeking to go public as soon as this summer....

END QUOTE

http://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ecommerce-firm-zazzle-is-said-to-tap-citi-barclays-for-ipo-1.1725764

[JerryLambert]

I read that a few weeks ago. I just hope the CP effect doesn't happen here. IPO was the beginning of the end for them. 

[Caprice]

Interesting.  In what way?

I would definitely consider buying.  Wonder if 'creators' would get a private sale first?  It would also depend on the plan for the technical side of the house.  

[idraw]

@Windy    @jerrylambert.  @WittyBetty 

The cp ipo/cash out was preplanned by both owners. Mahesh Jain was a serial entrepreneur who cashed out before the ipo announcement, and left cp. The remaining owner, Fred, stayed and a board  was put in charge before he left. Cp lowered the artist percentage down so low that I finally left after many years of building my shops successfully. That’s when I made the transition to z, who made promises to us cp defectors,if that’s a fitting word for it.  If I remember correctly, the stock dropped drastically something like a day after issue. Working from memory, details fairly accurate.

So, since you asked, no, I would not buy and the actions  I just detailed are behind my reasoning.

btw, windy thanks for the heads-up.

Beaver brothers are the owners of Z, google them to  learn more about them and add to your knowledge base. They seem to keep a low profile, as opposed to Maheesh  at cp who interacted with the artists on a daily basis. 

[dotellabelle]

Very interesting. I'm considering it. 

[Viepure]

Yes I'll buy if the buy stock otion is availble through my z

[Viepure]

Yes I'll buy if the buy stock option is available through my zazzle store.

[WittyBetty]

I would if I saw a well thought out management of new ideas. Not like what we have witnessed with the Attribution project. Not like what we have witnessed with launching the Create Tool with an astounding message "Download it and use whenever you want for free". Not like what we have witnessed with the "We will charge your inactive account if you don't create new products" project.

I mean, I love Zazzle and I believe in its bright future, but to invest real money in it I must know there will be no extreme PR failures like what I mentioned above. And for that, I'll observe for a year or two before deciding.

[Connie]

Those will be the LEAST of your worries if Zazzle goes public! I haven't seen a company YET that was BETTER after an IPO. The investors grab as much money out as fast as they can, at the expense of ruining the longevity and viability of the site, then they bail.

[idraw]

@Windy, Thanks for the heads-up.

[KeegansCreation]

I'll probably dabble for fun but not sink a huge amount of money into it.

While reading various online articles about this, I came across the interesting stats that there are >300 million designs and >900K designers. When I go into the MP and drill up to All Products it <18.5 million. I wonder where the article authors got that 300 million figure from and if it's true that their servers have 281.5 million hidden products. That seems a lot. Also, 900K designers? That's some competition I can't even fathom. But if 281.5 million products are hidden, there are probably many thousands of designers who posted a few hundred things (now hidden) who then let their account go dormant and haven't logged in to Zazzle since. Just my guess.

Going public increases the public profile of a company. It often feels like having us share designs is the first time people have ever heard of Zazzle. Redbubble is a lot more well known and has been public for a while. It also can bring in money to help growth. But also it stops being the singular vision of its founders and is under more pressure to turn a good profit. I don't have the business knowledge to predict how this will affect us as designers.

Best case scenario, the larger public profile raises awareness in potential customers about the amazing personalization available at Zazzle. The only other POD that even attempts this is CafePress and they have botched it, in my opinion.  The other PODs that don't offer customization have capitalized on products that don't benefit from photo or text templates, like curtains and dresses. Perhaps the opportunities for expansion that going public brings will encourage Zazzle to snag some of that market. I mean, they do to a good extent with the Home and Clothing departments but S6 has a monopoly on curtains and Redbubble has a monopoly on dresses and it would be great to see Zazzle take a bite of that.

[Connie]

I haven't seen a company YET that was better off for going public. Look at ETSY. Now it is almost impossible to get any sales there for actual handmade goods. I wasn't personally on CP, but I haven't heard anything good about them after they went public.

[idraw · Accepted solution]

in reply to @Connie and everyone else  reading this...

Consider this scenario: Background info: I was a successful SK on CP and have personal knowledge of some of what happened. Around Sept of that year, artists were posting on the forum, asking what was going on. Fortunately I got bad vibes at the end of quite a few phone conversations and emails as an artist working with one of the owners (I believe I saved the emails) and when the ipo issued, I did not buy in and was glad I didn't.

CP issued IPO  (owners number 1 cashed out before the ipo and quietly left the company,( which I can verify) and the remaining owner sold his the first day (if memory serves me) along with the other big holders, then the stock dropped, leaving the remaining holders hanging. Picture it...big investors cash out their large holdings first day, stock drops, Working from memory but fairly clear picture of the  unfolding of events.

Maybe another previous CP SK can chime in.

Just saying please use caution when investing in stocks of any kind with any company.

More tidbits for thought--

https://dbpedia.org/page/Zazzle
Zazzle received an initial investment of US$16 million in July 2005 from Google investors John Doerr and Ram Shriram, and an additional investment of US$30 million in October 2007.
founders Robert Beaver, Bobby Beaver ,Jeff Beaver
founded 1/1/ 2005
-----------
https://www.kiplinger.com/investing/stocks/ipos/604149/hot-upcoming-ipos-to-watch-for-2022
Robert Beaver founded five different tech companies. But his largest is Zazzle, which he launched in 2005 with sons Jeff and Bobby, and wife Peggy, as cofounders.
Bloomberg, citing people familiar with the matter, reported that Zazzle has hired Citigroup and Barclays for an IPO that could arrive as soon as this summer. The company could be valued at between $1 billion and $2 billion.
Very little is currently known about the company's financials, though an eventual S-1 filing would change that.  (my additional comment--financials undisclosed because they are a private company right now)
----------
https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/google-investors-find-new-project/
July 2005 Doerr's Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and Shriram's Sherpalo Ventures will announce they've led Zazzle's series A funding, and the two men have joined the company's board of directors.

----------

FWIW-- Not trying to defame or cast a bad light on any company, just do your due diligence, pay attention, money lost is money gone.

In my case, the years I put in building my CP shops is gone ( I closed them and left), and I had to start again on Zazzle, July is my 14 yr Z bday. For me,  just another a learning experience/life lesson.

[JerryLambert]

Here is a link that describes the securities class action against CP

http://cafepressshareholderlitigation.com 

"there were weakening sales in the Company’s “shop” segment, softening international sales and fluctuations in key product demand that placed immense pressure on CafePress’ core business and threatened the Company’s operating results. Specifically, the Complaint alleges that CafePress was undergoing severe challenges in its small shops segment such that sales and revenue growth, both domestically and internationally, in the shop segment was declining, and that consumer search traffic to CafePress’ small shops segment had undergone substantial erosion, which made it difficult for CafePress to drive search traffic to its consumer websites"

The "erosion" mentioned was due to shopkeepers jumping ship and coming over to Zazzle. 

Here is another summary

"CafePress allegedly understated the competitive strains on its core small shop business, which depends on algorithmically generated Internet traffic. As a result, CafePress’ registration and/or prospectus used past revenue data that allegedly poorly foretold its future operations, used sales and marketing figures that did not reflect waning gross margins, failed to disclose that the company lacked the ability to get small shop sales, and glossed over the company’s need for large capital outlays to get large shop customers in the face of lost small shop business."

I take all of this to mean that the most valuable asset to any POD platform is it's shopkeepers.

[KeegansCreation]

Well that was a terrifying read.  I am wondering about this sentence, " As a result, CafePress’ registration and/or prospectus used past revenue data that allegedly poorly foretold its future operations, used sales and marketing figures that did not reflect waning gross margins, failed to disclose that the company lacked the ability to get small shop sales, and glossed over the company’s need for large capital outlays to get large shop customers in the face of lost small shop business." Do you know what they mean by "large shop customers" ? What is the differentiation between large shop and small shop here? Is it something that has relevance to Zazzle? Is "large shop" the major brands like Disney and other officially licensed brands and "small shop" is the little designers like us? Or is it something else?

It sounds like they were dishonest about what kind of shape they were in before going public. Fingers crossed Zazzle is in good shape.

[idraw]

Hi Jerry,

To add to what you posted in the "here is another summary" section...When a company is private, they can and do keep their earnings undisclosed, and can and will manipulate their accounting and records to their advantage when dealing with their investors so that their big time investors, well,  invest...Only after the ipo can anyone get an idea of the accounting figures, and even then, the figures may be/probably are inflated.

My viewpoint, not for general consumption. Humor Warning: Please do not chew on the figures especially the inflated numbers, choking hazard. It's been a long day.

And YES I agree that the most valuable asset to any POD is its shopkeepers.

[heartlocked]

"consumer search traffic to CafePress’ small shops segment had undergone substantial erosion, which made it difficult for CafePress to drive search traffic to its consumer websites"

And they have no one to blame but themselves. I was one of those loyal CP shopkeepers who lost everything because of their greed. I can't say I wish those people very good things, that whole experience was traumatic. 

[shellifitz]

Really hoping the same thing doesn't happen here! 

[Wildart]

stock talk just makes my head hurt.......

[WHS_Designs]

an interesting article and question. it's definitely food for thought but I can't really say one way or the other right now.

[Connie]

OH NO!!!!!! Why can't Zazzle get OUR opinions before doing such a DISASTROUS thing?????? ALL the companies that go public get DESTROYED within a few years- they treat their designers/ sellers horribly, the quality goes down, sales tank, and the whole atmosphere changes. Look at Etsy, and CP, and others!

[Windy]

In answer to why people who own very large assets might not ask the opinions of an artist:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i706.pdf`

[Connie]

I don't understand?

[Windy]

Zazzle is valued upwards of one billion dollars and is owned by a small number of people. The IRS assesses a massive penalty against large holdings such as this, upon the death of the holder.  Therefore preparation is necessary and it might not be feasible to ask the artists how they feel about a sale which may be needed in order to pay a gargantuan tax bill. As you will see in the form instructions I sent, the grieving family would have nine months to make payment. If just one person owned all of a one billion dollar company, the tax due would be FOUR HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS. 

[Connie]

Wow, that's insane!

[Digitalbcon]

Buying stocks might be the only way to make money on Zazzle after they go public!

[Connie]

Unfortunately, you are right. But I don't want to participate in the destruction of a great company!

[CatsEyeViewGift]

I'm confused, if the company goes under because of things that happen after they go public, how would buying stock give you a gain?  wouldn't you lose all your money?

[Saints_Aplenty]

FYI...

In case you're interested, here's an article "How to participate in the Upcoming Zazzle IPO" with step-by-step instructions.

[Connie]

It's not for US citizens.

[Saints_Aplenty]

This was just an FYI meant to be educational and there is info for the USA:

"How to Invest in Zazzle after the IPO date (opening price)?

After the IPO you can buy Zazzle stocks via Freedom24. Or if you're from the US use a trading app like eToro on the first trading day."

Besides, not all Zazzlers are in the USA.

[Connie]

Here's a very good article that explains how IPO's destroy companies. https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/this-is-how-ipos-destroy-great-companies.html

[idraw]

Thank you, Connie, for bringing this up.
Something else to watch for when a company goes public, the public can then know how much the cfo,ceo, board of directors pay themselves,as in salary ,not including the bonuses and perks….
Lots of upset people when the information comes out.

[CreativeLeahG]

I don't understand the whole IPO thing but I can say this

Zazzle and business models like it provide a VITAL means of earning an income for many thousands of people who for a variety of reasons can't do so the traditional 'hired employee 9-5' way. And this needs recognition and support from any body that values people working for themselves to help themselves. 

Zazzle does not discrimnate against race, color, disability, age, gender. ALL are welcome.

For myself as an example, with various health issues:

Autism, Ehlers Danlos, Severe Osteoporosis, Osteoarthritis, Chronic pain to name a few whereby I can't now sit upright in a regular chair nor stand for prolonged periods due to pain. I can't work 'out there'. Self-employment, working from home is my only option, not just a choice.

Through hard work and long hours I am able to earn a decent income which allows me to provide for myself and my family. There are many like me with health issues, mental health struggles, practical issues (they may be full-time carers for family members, retired pensioners in dire need of a supplemental income, full-time single moms and dads) who benefit from having self-respect as well an income as a result of the Zazzle business model.

It is a lifeline literally!

I do worry how changes may impact this massive workforce which relies on these business models to help ensure we remain productive and valuable members of society.

I have faith however, Zazzle will continue to provide the support and tools we need to continue, whether it be IPO or whatever it is.

[Connie]

IPO is when they turn the company into a public company and sell stocks. Basically, they sell the company to shareholders. So then the shareholders make all the company decisions, and all they ever care about is make a quick profit however they can get it. They don't care about the designers like us, or longevity, or making the company better. So that's why now actual handmade sellers can't get sales on Etsy. And that's why CP treated their designers so terribly that a lot of them jumped ship and came to Zazzle.

[CreativeLeahG]

Hopefully that won't happen to us and in the meantime we need to future-proof ourselves the best we can. No idea what that means as yet though.

[idraw]

Hi Connie,
You said..."And that's why CP treated their designers so terribly that a lot of them jumped ship and came to Zazzle...."
Which made me wonder, how many  CP employees also came over to Z, before (with foreknowledge), during or after the great artists CP departure. I know we won't get an answer, due to non-disclosure, non compete (time constraints) and whatever else, but still it's an interesting point to think about. How many Z employees are past CP employees? Not trying to start a negative discussion, pro/con or anything of the kind. Just thinking out loud so to speak. Am I the only one who has thought about this scenario?

[Viepure]

Very inspiring!

https://viepurelife.myshopify.com

https://www.zazzle.ca/store/viepure   

[shellifitz]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the CP exodus where Zazzle got many of their designers from back then?   so we need a new POD to come along where we can all go if necessary. 

[CarlaRolfe]

You're not wrong. I've been here since 2006 but all my newest designs went to CP. Until right around the fall of 2009 when the mass exodus took place, and I was among them. All my newest designs came here, and I've never looked back. I only hope zazzle remains the strong platform they are now.