WTH with Zazzle arbitrarily "optimizing" items and then removing them if you don't choose to optimiz

[pichick712]

IT SHOULD BE MY DECISION TO REMOVE AN ITEM NOT ZAZZLE'S. I get messages about having to "optimize" items and suppose I don't think they need optimizing, I am screwed because Zazzle will take the item down. What gives them the right to do that?

[chriiisss]

ah. if it doesn't appear even when searching for the full title, I suppose there's nothing to be done, I suppose the algorithm considered it a repeated product.
I think it's a side effect of spam control, some products will be "unfairly" sacrificed.
I have a product like that, just one that I noticed.
Bearing this in mind in future designs is just what we can do, I suppose.

[Westerngirl2]

Well, it's going to be tough on designers going into the future if that's considered a repeated product. There's none other in that product line with the same image AND the same uploaded (not Zazzle generated) text. That should make it unique right there. Also, considering the product was properly displayed for 2 years, has 4.6K views, several likes, and consistent sales over that time period...still selling from marketing efforts. Also considering that there are identical repeated mass produced designs all over Zazzle and easily found....this one is the one that caused a problem? I'd say the algorithm needs some serious tweaking.

[chriiisss]

yes, very frustrating.
I would publish a new design (made by editing the old one), with minor changes, as soon as possible so that it quickly appears in searches.

(like would put a color in the background, behind the image)

[ColsCreations]

@Westerngirl2   Do you have another thread somewhere about this? I remember you mentioning these problem golf balls before but not where. Anyway, I poked around a bit with some different searches but don't want to go on about it here as it's off-topic from the original thread subject.

[Westerngirl2]

Yeah, I agree...it's off track from the original intent of this post. And yes, we discussed this in a previous thread. I had that bookmarked, but my laptop motherboard got fried, and I couldn't recover most of the stuff I hadn't downloaded, including the bookmarks. I could poke around too and try to find it (I find this current system frustrating to find things in), but I think I'm going to just have to do what chriiisss suggested and  recreate it. I can't think of anything else to do, and Zazzle doesn't seem interested in it. But wow....all those views and sales history lost. Not to mention the links from marketing. I guess I'll set the original to "Direct Only" for that....but I fear they will still hide the new one. Arrrggghhhh! And like I mentioned before, I have several of these situations. ☹️

[chriiisss]

@Westerngirl2 don't think too much about this hazard because it gets in your way, try to make the best of the situation (easy to say, I know).
when zazzle answers us vaguely or answers us with a new question 😄 I immediately think: it's an algorithm thing. no platform can disclose how it works, nor change it easly, it's not necessarily because they are not interested in our case. anyway, may the force be with you! 🙂

[pichick712]

people can only be "so creative" with their titles. We're not writing books, we're trying to describe an item in 10 words or less. SMH

[waterart]

That is a good point, one of the reasons I don't like optimizing my hidden products is that I can't think of anything else to change or add. I try to do the best I can when I first post the product for sale.

[KeegansCreation]

It's worth going into Edit>Product Merchandising for hidden products. Sometimes the title/tags are just fine but whatever color/style you chose has gone out of stock. Out of stock things are hidden in the marketplace too. So if you simply change the color/style to something in stock, you are good to go. I find this happens regularly with phone cases and with things that come in multiple colors like shirts, water bottles and lunch boxes.

[igiftcenter]

if you bulk reactivate a boat load of products back into your store, your z rank may suffer... if Z rank means anything to you? I've noticed that a store sales to # of products ratio can affect Z rank. Not everyone finds the z rank metrics important to them.  I hope it all works out for you

[Westerngirl2]

I did think about the Z rank, but I am wondering if it really matters at all at this point. After 12 years of building everything up, I'm a bit discouraged right now. It's spring cleaning season (even though we got 6 inches of lovely new snow here in the Colorado Rockies today) so I think I'll probably dive into that for awhile. I'm pretty sick of doing cover photos.

Thank you for the well wishes. God is good, and everything works out in the long run. Best of sales to you, too!

[igiftcenter]

It's easy to get discouraged and even get a sense of sales paranoia. I remember when every time I had a bad sales day I wondered if that trend was going to continue. Especially when the day appeared to be an anomaly based on prior trends. 

Nowadays I no longer worry about a bad day because all I care about is how the month turns out. Let's face it we're in the retail business... it's always going to have ups and downs.  But I do understand how you feel and I'm sorry you are going through this.  But are you ready to give up 12 years of efforts?  I wouldn't. 

One tip: I noticed when I'm designing one particular product type (lets say cellphones or ?) that if I take a change of direction and start designing other things, it has helped my sales. An algorithm thing? Who knows  

[Westerngirl2]

No, not giving up...maybe just taking a break for a while.

BUT...I think I finally figured it out. While in the shower. All this time spend pondering what is going on, and it comes to me in the shower. Ha! And it does make me wonder why I didn't "get it" sooner.

I have two of the product types (golf balls) with the same image. The text is completely different, and the theme is different, too, but the picture is the same. Now, that used to not be a problem, and both products were highly ranked, have good sales, and appeared in search. Something changed. I'm thinking that having the text alone be different is not enough now to stave off the dreaded algorithm of "having the same product". For whatever reason, the one that got removed from search results was, by far, the better selling of the two. An interesting point...the text was added PRIOR to uploading to Z...it's not Zazzle originated text and not a template.

So...I took the "hidden" one and requested a modification by adding a extra design detail. It's pretty insignificant, and I don't think it adds to the design at all, but it may be enough to get it going again. Problem is, since it has good past sales, they may deny my request. If so, I'll appeal. If it works, I'll try the same approach with other products that may be caught up in the same algorithm.

I'll let you know when and if I hear back (because some of my modification requests just seem to disappear with no action and no notification.) Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Barbara]

What you've surmised implies they're using photo-recognition software. If not, then it could be the photo's file name being recognized, and if that's the case, it means uploading two identical photos with different file names might cure the problem. Then again, maybe your stars are aligned poorly.

Colorwash's Home

[Westerngirl2]

lol...I've sometimes thought my stars are aligned poorly!

The file names were already different, as the text on each was different when uploaded to Z. I do wonder about all those purchased t-shirt slogans that the mass producers throw up on different shirt styles. Maybe having just a different style of a product makes a difference?

Of course, I'm assuming my theory is correct. I could be totally wrong.

Zazzle.....so much to do, so little time, so much mystery. Maybe that's why I've always been intrigued.

[Wildart]

aha! I do notice that if I make changes to a cover image, and re upload it, it doesn't accept the new image with the same name, I always have to go back and add ,say, an "a" or a ""1" after it.. so image/image name recognition,  MUST be a factor

[Wildart]

can you please tell me about product modification? I haven't done that yet... How much can we change? I would appreciate help on this...

[DBCartoons]

Thank you for the tip! 

[Wildart]

spring cleaning for me haha..I do more of it now(Fall here) than I ever do in spring!! I think it's becuase fall weather is nicer than spring weather,and a lot warmer too!! 🙂 🙂

[WBartworks]

When I first started on Zazzle my Z-rank went up right after making 3 sales.  I've made a lot more sales since then and achieved ProSeller, but the Z-rank stays the same.  Go figure!