Color Matching Problem - Could the Paper be the Issue?

[Cat]

I got a message today from an unhappy customer who ordered both table numbers and favor tags. The artwork and colors are exactly the same, but the colors look totally different - like way too blue on the table numbers. I'm wondering if this is a printing error, or if the different paper stock might be the culprit. The table numbers are on standard semi-gloss while the tags are matte. Does anybody know if that could cause this much of a color discrepancy? Trying to figure out if I can transfer the table numbers to a card with a matte finish and have them turn out the right color or if that's just a wild goose chase. Any thoughts?

[Connie]

When ordering samples of wedding invitations on various types of paper, I noticed that there is a slight color change. It wasn't that drastic on the ones I ordered, though. But they came from a few different printers, so I'm not sure whether it was the printer, or the paper type that caused the discrepancy.

[Cat]

The customer is in Australia, which throws even more confusion into the mix. I have no clue what printers are used in that case. She's unhappy with the table numbers, but actually it's the gift tags that seem way off from the design to me. The design color is slightly redder than the table numbers, but not nearly as red as the tags. Well anyhow, she's got a few more things on order, so I'm thinking we'll wait and see and perhaps if the results are at least consistent I can correct it by color shifting the artwork. Hmmm...

[Cat]

A bit more feedback for the Zazzle team. I got a few more photos and feedback from the customer, as the angle of the picture makes it hard to see the exact color. But based on the new photos it now seems clear that the paper is the issue. She has ordered half a dozen different products, and everything printed on matte paper is coming out the correct color. Everything printed on semi-gloss is color shifted blue.

Original color (hex: #624374)
Color on Semi-Gloss sampled from photo (hex: #4b3e69)

I guess the only option is to use greeting card stock or something similar for all of the products so I can put everything on matte paper, but I really wish Zazzle would address this with the printer.

[Pádraig]

Hi @Cat,

I'm very sorry to hear of the color differences here. I'm happy to forward your feedback to our team for further review. This may simply be a printing error. Our wonderful customer service team will be able to assist the customer with any issues they have and flag them with the relevant maker. They can contact us via the link below.

https://www.zazzle.com/about/ask

All the best,

Pádraig 🙂

[Cat]

The customer already contacted support and got a refund for the cards where the color is wrong. The problem is that we don't know what to do now. She doesn't just want to reorder and have the same problem again. She's waiting on a few more items that are also on semi-gloss paper, so our plan is to see how those turn out. If they have the same problem, then I'm going to try to re-do everything using other products that have a matte finish option. Suffice it to say, she's not happy.

[Deb]

Pádraig, I beg to differ -

And with all due respect - this is exactly the kind of canned patronizing response we really do not need from our 'team' - I have gotten exactly the same kind of response via email to the pro seller  support and it is a bit infuriating -  this is not just a customer concern,  this is a Designer concern

These do not seem like printing errors and if they are, someone needs to take a SERIOUS look into who is creating these errors - as it is happening far too often to far too many people on far too many  products - is it one location? one machine? one worker? Bad ink? miscalibrated printers?  Something is going on and it is not helping serious designers OR their customers -  and  quality control seems to be very absent. 

[StarvingArtist]

Cat - I was interested when reading your post. I was recently preparing for a personal project so I ordered one each of most of the paper types available for invitations (EXCEPT that I did NOT order 3; the brown kraft paper, the ultra-thick or the 'silver tone' paper). I created my 'samples' (with info printed on each one so I could easily tell 'which-is-which') to help me determine which paper type I would want to choose in the end. FYI, I printed the backside in a light sage green. I created ONE artwork - then ordered THE EXACT SAME THING on 9 different papers. Here is a photo of that result (sorry, just took the photo now and it is nighttime and resolution is not so great here in the forum, but it gives you an idea):

#1 = Pearl Shimmer

#2 = Champagne Shimmer (to be expected that it's browner)

#3 = Felt White

#4 = Laid (subtle ribbed)

#5 = Columned

#6 = Felt Ecru

#7 = Matte

#8 = Bright White Semi-Gloss (you can see here how it shifts blue!)

#9 = Linen

For the record, the one that most closely matched the color I designed was probably #3 or #5 - maybe even #7 although that one seems a tad yellow. In hindsight, I should have marked down which Pantone color I chose so I could compare at home. Maybe I will redo this test some day using multiple color swatches. Also, I printed a photo on the front side of all of these and the photos all were perfect. No glaring color problems. The variance showed up mostly in art and solids, like you can see here on the printed reverse sides.

Just thought this might be a help to others.

[Cat]

@StarvingArtist Wow! Thank you SO MUCH for posting this! I've been meaning to order some samples myself, I just keep hemming and hawing about the best content to print on them, and probably making it WAY more complicated than it needs to be.

I'm really shocked by the difference between the matte and the semi-gloss - especially since those are the two most common papers... well, they're the ones my customers seem to choose most often anyhow. I guess it sorta makes sense that the matte would be a bit yellower since the description says it's an eggshell finish, but the semi-gloss seems WAY off to me. I'm wondering if that's by design, like if the semi-gloss has always been blue-shifted like that, or if there's some problem with the equipment at the moment. 

@Pádraig, is there any way you could check for us if that's how the color is intended to print on semi-gloss paper or if this is a problem that will be fixed?

If that color discrepancy is indeed by design, then I'd like to suggest that the preview images be updated to reflect that difference so that customers will know that ordering semi-gloss will impact the color so dramatically.

I'm also struggling to figure out how to match colors across products - like envelopes, stickers, paper sheets, posters, foam core boards, and tabletop signs. It's quite common for customers to purchase a selection of wedding items including several of those products, and if there's no way to match colors across products it's a real problem.

[StarvingArtist]

@Cat You're welcome!

Another point I will make: the semi-gloss paper is listed as 'bright white' and the matte paper is listed as 'light eggshell white' - and when you have them side-by-side the semi-gloss is a 'cool' white and the matte a 'warm' white. When I look at the fronts of all my samples, the semi-gloss paper looks like it is a pale grey. If you are interested, I'll try and photo the fronts and post here so you can see what the 'raw' papers look like compared to one another.

I think the semi-gloss is casting blue because the paper itself is so blue, and perhaps with the smooth finish it takes the ink differently.

I can't imagine how a person would be able to get a true color match across different paper types - I printed all the backs the exact same Pantone color and they all printed so differently. I can only guess that the best solution is to recommend to customers that all 'suites' should be ordered from the exact same paper type to insure color continuity. You can't rely on them both saying (for example) 'bright white' or 'soft white' - because the 'bright white' ones printed differently from one another because of the paper textures, etc. Hope that makes sense.

[Cat]

I'm gonna step up my efforts to create and order some samples myself, but if you have time to post pictures of the blank stock that would be great!

I think you're correct that the best practice is to order everything with the same paper type - and my first course of action here is to go through all of my wedding suites and make sure that the default is the same for all the products. 

But here's the thing, not all products are available in all paper types. I'm specifically thinking of the table numbers since that was the issue for this customer. They only come in semi-gloss or ultra-thick. There's no option to order them in matte - which was what she wanted. I ended up putting the design on a regular greeting card so we could get it on matte paper, but it's crazy that I had to do that. And I have NO IDEA if the seating chart will match when we get to that part of the process.

And then there's the issue of envelopes and belly bands - who knows what sort of paper they are printed on and how the colors do or don't match. Enclosures are a problem too. The larger sizes have all the paper options, but when you get down to the small ones used for website cards etc, they only come in matte and ultra thick!

Honestly, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to recommend for my customers. But at the VERY LEAST it seems like Zazzle needs to make all of the paper options available for all invitation related items, and they also need to update the previews to show the difference - especially between matte and semi gloss, because as it currently stands the previews look exactly the same when quite obviously they don't print the same.

Sorry, I'm not ranting at you, just ranting. @Pádraig could you please take a look at this issue and suggest to the team that we need better paper options and previews so customers have some prayer of making things match? 

[StarvingArtist]

@Cat  - so here's a pic of the paper 'as is' (natural, no color on it). I could only show an edge in this photo because the front of my samples is using an image I haven't got permission to share publicly.  I hope this helps somewhat. Personally,  it helps me to see 'real' photos - in situ with no photoshopping, etc. This is in natural light. I put some black paper to the right and top so you can see contrast. The left and bottom are my kitchen countertop. The papers are numbered and in almost the same order as my other photo earlier in this thread (I mixed up columned and laid):

#1 - Pearl Shimmer

#2 = Champagne Shimmer

#3 = Felt White

#4 = Columned

#5 = Laid

#6 = Felt Ecru

#7 = Matte

#8 = Bright White Semi-Gloss

#9 = Linen

I am thinking I am going to design better personal color samples for my own use moving forward. These samples really assisted me in deciding which paper would print how I wanted for this particular project, however.

I get your point on how not all items are available on all papers, so perhaps it would make sense to start adding 'disclaimers' in our descriptions about possible color variations between items? I hate to think about having to do that!

[Cat]

@StarvingArtist Wow! Thank you once again! I'm surprised by the huge color variations - especially since the "compare papers" popup doesn't really make that clear. I mean in Zazzle's photos you can tell that felt & champagne are off-white (and of course metallic silver & kraft are darker), but the others all look pretty much the same in Zazzle's photos and they're clearly not. 

@Pádraig I'd like to suggest that Zazzle might want to consider re-doing the compare papers images to show them side by side like this so that the color variations are more evident.