Did base prices go up without the royalty calculator also being udated to match?

[ColsCreations]

Was looking at a pint glass of mine last night and thought hmm, the $19 list price shown seems higher than I would have made it. So I went into Edit Details to look at the royalty setting and it shows

Last time these glasses sold was a year ago (April 22, 2023) and I can tell from the royalty report they were this list price of $17.25 at 18%. I can also see that back in Nov of 2021 (which I think was my first order for them) they were only $15, also at 18%. So the base price has increased over the years, I just didn't notice until last night when the $19 stood out to me.

If I go into the Advanced Calculator and set the retail price to $19, then the royalty jumps to 25.5%.

 But that is based on whatever the former, lower base price was.
If I do the math myself, the new $19 retail price x 18% comes to a royalty of $3.25.

My math - not an actual screenshot

Checking some other products and same thing, list-price shown on product page is higher than what's being reflected in the calculator which is showing the former numbers we based setting our percentage on.

tissue paper = $7.65 on product page, $6.90 in calculator
address labels = $22.25 on product page, $20.25 in calculator
poker chips = $32.50 on product page, $29.50 in calculator
pet ID tag = $19.50 on product page, $17.75 in calculator

So it seems like the base prices have increased across the board, including on digital downloads, but the royalty calculator hasn't been adjusted to reflect it, we're still seeing our chosen percentage applied to the old price.

[ColsCreations]

Oddly enough I just had a sale come through for 5 sheets of address labels. The list price on the product page shows $22.25 but the royalty calculator shows $20.25. I can confirm from this sale that the customer paid the $22.25 (less a 15% discount) and I earned my 20% royalty based on that, not the 20.25 price shown in the calculator.

[ColsCreations]

Couldn't resist more math, LOL.

tissue paper = $7.65 on product page, $6.90 in calculator = +0.75 = 10.9%
address labels = $22.25 on product page, $20.25 in calculator = +2.00 = 9.9%
poker chips = $32.50 on product page, $29.50 in calculator = +3.00 = 10.2%
pet ID tag = $19.50 on product page, $17.75 in calculator = +1.75 = 9.9%
Pint glass - $19.00 on product page, $17.25 in calculator = +1.75 = 10.2%

If accurate, the items I checked all increased on the product page over the old amount in the calculator by roughly the same margin (10%)

[DesertSky]

I want to preface my response by saying that this is just my assumption, I don't know this to be fact, but it is what I've observed.

I noticed this at least a month or two, possibly more, ago. I don't think the base prices increased, I think it's because Zazzle is no longer showing the price we choose in the royalty calculator, it's showing what they are calling a "comparable" price. If you click the little "i" it explains it. I don't know how exactly they come up with this "comparable" price, but it's not the price we choose in the royalty calculator. This new practice of showing a comparable price allows Zazzle to list a higher price than what we set so that when a customer is using a discount code it's off of the comparable price, not the price we set. I would assume that this a benefit to Zazzle's bottom line since the price is more, but we still get a royalty based on the amount we set in the royalty calculator. Personally, I don't think is very fair, nor do I think it's right that they changed their pricing strategy without telling us. I've always based my pricing choices on what I think is a fair cost to the customer, not based on what royalty I'll receive. With this new "comparable" pricing my strategy doesn't work because I never know what price they are going to show to the customer. I've had to rethink how I price things because there is no benefit to me to try to keep prices reasonable. I didn't mention anything in the forums because I know it's not going to change anything. What is most disappointing to me is that this was silently put into effect. Had there been transparency we could make an informed decision regarding our pricing. It's like the whole Quick Create products being removed, we weren't told about that either. It doesn't instill a feeling that we're working together when changes that affect us are silently put into place. As I said, I may be wrong about all of this, but it's what I've observed. If this isn't the case, I'd sure like to hear from Zazzle what the purpose of comparable pricing is. 

[ColsCreations]

I've struggled to understand this "Comparable Value" labeling ever since it turned up. Your theory is very interesting and could be right, anything is possible, but first I want to address this one thing.

 I would assume that this a benefit to Zazzle's bottom line since the price is more, but we still get a royalty based on the amount we set in the royalty calculator.

My address labels mentioned above show in the calculator as being at 20% royalty with "retail price" of $20.25 (for the 5-sheet minimum). The "comparable value" on the product page is $22.25. The sale of them this morning confirmed that I got 20% on the higher $22.25 price that the customer paid.

This page "explains" the comparable value pricing thing. But it makes zero sense so either it was just very poorly written or they are purposefully obfuscating and I would like to think it's the former.

The yellow part makes it 100% clear, no bones about it, that this number is just an estimation of what competitors might be charging. But it's the actual price on Zazzle as well if you fail to apply any promo code. The blue "price you pay at Zazzle" is the price after any discounts have been applied, not the list price. But Zazzle's example has left off the red line that tells you that number reflects whatever the current sale price is.

I have had orders come in with no discount and had to wonder how that happens, how does someone manage to not get at least the standard 15% off? Even going in as an anonymous shopper, the promo code for the 15% off is automatically applied in my cart, I'd have to intentionally click the Remove button to not get the discount. No idea how it happens that shoppers occasionally pay full list price but the point is, it does happen so the "Comp. Value" is not just a marketing ploy showing you the supposedly higher price you might pay at a competitor, it's the actual price you will pay on Zazzle if no promo codes are applied.

How it's worded and displayed now on the above linked page, they're saying they are comparing what you might pay elsewhere to what you will pay on Zazzle. But that's not the case, they are actually comparing what you will pay on Zazzle to what you will pay on Zazzle with a promo code applied.

If you look at the Info blurb on the product page

That makes much more sense. That doesn't say anything about other online marketplace prices, it just explains why you might see something else similar on Zazzle for a different price. I think it's saying (using my address label example) that all other 2.25 x 0.75 return address labels where the independent creator also set their royalty to 20% will all be the same $22.25; there might be hundreds of others of the same product probably even with similar designs that are only $19.95 because they're all set to only 15% (just making up those numbers). I don't think they are just making up random higher prices based on some average or something, I think they're just trying to explain that the price shown isn't for ALL address labels in the market, it's just for this style/size and the price may vary depending on the markup set by the IC. I think it's good they are trying to explain this, I've often wondered what customers think when they see dozens of same product with prices all over the map. But they could word the Info blurb a little better, and the Learn More page definitely needs a do-over to remove all the mumbojumbo about it being an estimation of what you'd pay at a competitor.

All I can deduce with my own eyes is that prices have gone up 9 - 11% and while our chosen royalty rate is being applied to that higher price, the royalty calculator is still reflecting the old lower prices making it impossible to know what the list price (now labeled "Comp Value") will actually be until you publish it.

[MasterpieceCafe]

Comp value makes no sense me at all. The price showing on the product page should be the price I've listed the product for. Not some weird abstract idea of what other products sell for. It's bizarre.

[ColsCreations]

I don't believe it's some weird abstract idea though.

I usually use the same % on all same product types so they're all same price. So I have 40 throw pillows, all published at 16 x 16 size, polyester option, all at 24% royalty. Every one of them regardless of age, sales, views, design, whether it has templates or not ... every one is $49.95 on the product page despite being only $45.95 in the royalty calculator. (An 8.7% increase.)

The blurb says

"Comp. Value prices are based on the prices of comparable items offered for sale elsewhere in the market."

The "comparable items" would be all other 16 x 16 polyester throw pillows with a 24% margin set by the IC. The rest of the blurb is a blurry way to explain that this not the price for ALL pillows or even all 16 x 16 polyester pillows; it's the price for comparable pillows - those where all the specs are the same including IC royalty.

This is just my take on it but regardless of the reasons for it, list-prices have increased across the board, there's no disputing that, but the royalty calculator is not reflecting the new prices.

[DesertSky]

@ColsCreations Thanks for putting so much thought into this, I really appreciate all of the time and effort it's taken you to try to figure this out. 

I'm really glad to hear that your royalty on the address labels was for the higher price the customer paid. I'm sorry that I somehow missed that in your previous post. As I said earlier, I could very well be wrong regarding this because I don't typically delve into the math when it comes to royalties. I wish I could remember which product I looked at when I noticed the price difference, but it was quite a long time ago. I know that the retail price I chose was $3.97 and the price showing to customers was $4.17. I typically like to have prices end in ninety something, and I would never choose an odd price like $4.17, so I knew something was off. I'm pretty sure it was for a greeting card, but I tried scrolling through my sales and couldn't find it (I may not have scrolled back far enough, or I may have just missed it). All I know is that when I saw the higher price and checked my expected royalty rate, it matched the $3.97 royalty rate the calculator said I should get. So, based on that it seemed to me they changed it because it was somehow to their benefit. Honestly, the first thing that came to my mind wasn't the loss of a few cents in the royalty, but that the cost I wanted the customer to see wasn't being seen, therefore there was no benefit to me to keep the prices competitive. Regarding the royalty, the only thing I can think of is that maybe I looked at the expected royalty wrong, though I'm pretty sure I didn't, or maybe there's some kind of algorithm that determines which price the royalty is based on. As you said, I guess anything is possible. 

Like you, I hope that all of this is just some sort of attempt at trying to explain to customers why prices vary so much across the same product. It seems to me though, that they could still display the retail price we select in the royalty calculator and make a simple statement like: "Prices for the same product in our marketplace vary due to many factors, including the royalty rate the independent creator selects." As you said, everything they have listed on the site is very confusing, especially when in one place they talk about other online sites and in another place they seem to be talking about the Zazzle marketplace.

It may be that the base prices simply just increased, but it seems odd to me that they would forget to update the royalty calculator. That's what makes me think there's more to this. I used to work in the marketing department of a major corporation and there was always a strategy and benefit to everything. Zazzle certainly has the right to make whatever changes they'd like, I just wish they'd told us. We don't need details regarding the strategy, just that they were no longer going to display the retail price shown in the calculator.  

You're right, the only thing we know for sure is that there is no way to know what price the customer will see until the product is published. I think that's unfortunate, so I'm starting to make changes accordingly. It would be really nice if there was a response to clarify all of this, but if this is a strategy of some sort, it's unlikely.  Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I really hope you're right regarding all of it.

[MasterpieceCafe]

If that were true then the "comp price" would be the same as my price. Right?

I have this apron set to 14.9% , the backend shows the sales price as $29.50. The "comp price" is $28

https://www.zazzle.com/vintage_little_bo_peep_mother_goose_nursery_rhyme_apron-256802042244268538

I think I need to raise my prices if you have your pillows set to 24%! lol

[ColsCreations]

When I click your link, I get a Medium apron as default, comp price is $32.45. If I switch to the Small size, comp price is $28.20.

[ColsCreations]

I think I need to raise my prices if you have your pillows set to 24%! lol

I haven't actually had a pillow sell in ages. When I set them all to 24%, it was to make them all what was to me a reasonable price at the time, $34.95 or maybe it was $39.95, I don't really remember now. But now that they're up to $49.95, yikes!  Once this issue with the royalty calculator is straightened out, I'll make the necessary adjustments to bring them back down under $40.

[LMGildersleeve]

This question of comparable pricing has been on my mind too. I've reached out to Z via email pointing to this thread to see if someone can give us an answer. Perhaps they can help with Col's observation and give us explanations of both inquiries. 

Of course I write this on a Saturday so we won't hear from them for several days... or not. 

[LMGildersleeve]

James H now has a link to this thread. 

[ColsCreations]

Another example, image pulled from a post in another recent thread

but if you go to the referenced product (a 12x12 acrylic print) it's listed as $85.20.

[LMGildersleeve]

@James I hope you are the same as James H. Two weeks ago I sent an email and James H replied. I'm hoping this will trigger a response to see if he could shed some light on @ColsCreations inquiry.

[Westerngirl2]

I really hope we eventually get Zazzle to chime in on this.

Has anyone else noticed that it seems now we spend more and more and more time on just trying to figure out what Z is doing, and what they want us to do, and then trying to DO it?

I'm wishing back to the days when I could spend quality time just designing, and promoting. (sigh)

[JLynnW]

It is obvious at this time that the base prices have increased, but it is not obvious WHY Zazzle has not verified this fact. Why can Zazzle not simply verify this fact to their "Creators"?  Why Zazzle has not followed through on updating all necessary steps in the process of selling is  Information is a necessity not a question any longer, for better or not. Thank you.

[ColsCreations]

Looks like this is being addressed even though there has been no official response here.

As of today, May 21, all of the product examples I listed in my original post

tissue paper = $7.65 on product page, $6.90 in calculator
address labels = $22.25 on product page, $20.25 in calculator
poker chips = $32.50 on product page, $29.50 in calculator
pet ID tag = $19.50 on product page, $17.75 in calculator
pint glass - $19.00 on product page, $17.25 in calculator

are, on the product page, back to the lower "comp. value" / retail price  as shown in the calculator.  Likewise for the acrylic print example that was showing as 85.20, it's now also back to the 77.45 as shown in the screenshot of the royalty calculator.

I just realized in typing this that today is the 21st and they begin processing changes to royalties on the 20th. So regardless of whatever caused the actual retail prices to be inflated without us increasing our royalty %'s, my guess is they are now trying to un-do it but because pricing has always been tied to our royalty % there are tech reasons the changes/fix were delayed until this same time when royalty changes are processed.

Also, I found this page today, never happened on it before, and it says

Why are royalties only updated once a month?

Real-time pricing changes are putting our ability to participate in search engine feeds at risk. This is a very important channel for marketplace sales, so it is imperative that we comply with requests from this channel.

I had no idea. I rarely change royalty % after publishing something but that's really interesting to know and again, probably why they couldn't address the pricing issues until now.

Anyway, this is good news I think. I'm going to give it at least a week for the dust to settle and then have a closer look at some of the royaltys I'd like to change, like those piilows LOL,  assuming it'll then be safe to trust the retail price shown in the calculator again.

@LMGildersleeve 

[ColsCreations]

As of today, May 21, all of the product examples I listed in my original post

tissue paper = $7.65 on product page, $6.90 in calculator
address labels = $22.25 on product page, $20.25 in calculator
poker chips = $32.50 on product page, $29.50 in calculator
pet ID tag = $19.50 on product page, $17.75 in calculator
pint glass - $19.00 on product page, $17.25 in calculator

are, on the product page, back to the lower "comp. value" / retail price  as shown in the calculator. 

As of today, June 2, that is still true EXCEPT for the address labels. They are back to being $22.25 on the product pages. BUT, this higher price is now accurately being reflected in the royalty calculator. I noticed because someone bought 10 sheets today. The $22.95 is the "comp value" shown on the product page and the "retail value" shown in the calculator for all of my address labels at this same royalty %, and I earned my royalty based on that (minus of course the current discount on them).

[Peter222]

Well , as in cover photo covers, hidden products that have to be updated etc. Especially if you have a 20 year old Shop full of things, or more than 1 Shop. We are spending more time figuring and doing these things, when our real abiltes come from designing and selling new designs.

I just want to know What the cutomers price will be, so I can set my royalty accordingly. But from some of the replies it seems that no one but Z will set this ? I mean I thought it would be great for them to show a product, then put the slash tough that price, and show the Comp value they will pay for. Finally a way to sell a 30 $ at say 26 $ .   oh well

[ColsCreations]

I just want to know What the cutomers price will be, so I can set my royalty accordingly. But from some of the replies it seems that no one but Z will set this ? I mean I thought it would be great for them to show a product, then put the slash tough that price, and show the Comp value they will pay for.

From what I can see right now, June 3rd, the issue with what is shown in the royalty calculator not matching what is shown on the product pages has been fixed. For all products I checked, the "Retail price" shown in the calculator correctly matches the "Comp. value" as shown on the product pages.
"Comp. value" is just the list price, i.e, what customers would pay without any discount applied.