Why Do Our Pinterest Marketing Efforts (promoter 2 prog.) result in 65 products via other Designers?

[CreativeLeahG]

Some time ago, I noticed that several of my Pins (not all) shared via the Promoter 2 Program, which enables me to earn a 35% affiliate fee if my item sells, do not direct customers to my product page as intended through the link I've shared. Instead, they lead to a landing page featuring my product (albeit with key details missing) along with no less than 65 products by other designers.

Example Pin: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/123215739803223742/

This offers customers numerous alternative choices to consider, in contrast to the 5+ chances they have when viewing the other designers' carousel on our product pages.

This redirection has been deeply frustrating, as it hinders the effectiveness of our marketing efforts in promoting our products. When customers end up purchasing something else, we miss out on the benefits we intended to gain from the Promoter 2 program.

To provide some context, I send approximately 20,000 customer referrals to Zazzle each month,

Total linkovers 1,360,194

which is no small effort. I've also observed that my self-referrals have dwindled from around 5+ per day to approximately 2-3 every other day.

This leads me to wonder if the redirection issue is a contributing factor, with the 65 alternative choices possibly diverting customers away from the products I've worked hard to promote and refer.

As a result, I find myself facing a dilemma. Should I consider removing all my Promoter 2 pins to prevent potential sales from being directed to other designers? Denting significantly the number of customers I send to Zazzle (linkover history). It's disheartening to put in considerable effort to showcase 65 other products without reaping any rewards in return.

Could you please shed light on whether this redirection issue is an aspect of Zazzle's or Pinterest's policy, and if it's the latter, how we might engage with Pinterest to rectify the matter? The fact that the Pins do not direct customers to the intended pages raises concerns, potentially running counter to Pinterest's terms.

Thank you for your time and consideration as I consider leaving the Promoter 2 program due to this development.

[Malissa]

If you click through from a Google search, the result is the same product page so I it's not just links from Pinterest, however, if I click on a link from my own website, it goes directly to the regular product page.  I am not sure what causes the format change because the pin I checked was one I manually made with the same URL I used on my website.

[CreativeLeahG]

For this to happen re Google search makes a bit of sense in that Google results are possibly the result of Zazzle's own adverts ... in which case they'd want to 'avoid' ( I assume) a referral fee (of 35% to us) given we are not the ones doing the referring? But that shouldn't be the case for anything we ourselves are 'putting out there'. It's all very odd.

[ColsCreations]

It used to be that one only got the"View Product Details" page if one was not signed into a Zazzle account. Then at some point that changed and now it seems to be all outside links back to a product whether one is signed in or not. I just checked links out to products from both my website and yours and they all result in getting the "View Product Details" page. However, you only get that page on the first click-in during a browser session. Even if one doesn't actually click the "View Product Details" button, all subsequent clicks-in from an outside link take you to the regular product page. If you close your browser and start a new session (or clear your browsing data during a session) then you get the "View Product Details" page again on first link-in. Note that you also get this "View Product Details" page if you click-in to Zazzle via a link to a Collection, and then click on a product in that Collection. This has been my experience using different browsers (which I've been doing a lot lately trying to see the new BETA features) and logged in or out.

[Fiorenzo]

My own tests show that this intermediate page only shows when you have no active Zazzle cookies stored. Product links through collection and category links seem to work normally in every case. Need to test API links now. I wrote more details in a separate reply.

[ColsCreations]

Yes, it's cookie-driven. In my previous post I failed to account for browser settings. Because Opera is what I use for testing things on a virgin browser, I have it set to clear cookies & site data when I close it.

 Because Firefox is my primary browser, I have it set to NOT clear on exit. (I clearly need to clear my cache though LOL)

I could not find such setting in Chrome but it seems to be clearing cookies on exit.

So when I said you get the "View Product Details" page when you close your browser and then open it again to start a new session, that's only if your browser is clearing cookies on close.

Also, with a virgin browser (no cookies & haven't clicked into the Zazzle domain yet), if you view any Zazzle page first and then go to a product page (directly or via a link), you get the regular product page. That interim page only shows up if a product page is your first stop in Zazzle. Got more but out of time, gott'a head to work.

[CreativeLeahG]

This isn't what I am seeing. I of course am logged in daily to Zazzle, but my pins are hit and miss whether they direct to this landing page. I don't have automated cookie clearance (using chrome).

[Fiorenzo]

So you say you get to this landing page always when clicking on a Pinterest Pin? I did my tests by copy-and-pasting in the address bar. Perhaps Zazzle checks also from where the links come. Can you please post the link of one of these pins that lead to the landing page so I can test it out how it works here on my PC?

[CreativeLeahG]

It seems all referral links are going to these landing pages now (aside from collections) - all sites and including referral links created via ascend/pepperjam. Meanwhile this is another example as requested: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/123215739804029990/

I note the collection appears to have been moved as that's now showing higher up. So that's an improvement.

[Fiorenzo]

Thank you for the link. I can confirm, your link from Pinterest leads to the landing page, not to the product page. ALWAYS, no matter if I'm logged in on Zazzle or not, if cookies are set or not. It seems, the links are not only cookie-driven but also origin-driven. This is alarming.

I see your collection, too, following the product. Not the old way but with a large collection pic and other pics on the right. IMO, way too large on my widescreen, it gets visually overwhelming.

On the positive side, your invitation shows now the single card price as default, not the bulk default. This is a nice improvement.

I must test it out well on my website, and I also want to test out API links. The problem is, that if the behavior depends both on cookies and on the source of the link, it is nearly impossible to test all possible outcomes. Need also to test via Facebook, but I do not directly link to zazzle there. If the website links works fine, I guess the solution on Pinterest is to link to your website.

[sm]

Facebook goes to the landing page. Twitter (at the moment) goes to the product page. 

[Fiorenzo]

Thank you for saving me time. Things are now clear to me when it comes to promoting and linking, always and only to my website. before, I still was a bit undecided, because there are pros and cons. Pro is, you can filter and manage your content better on your own site and you can even offer pre-customization before they on on Zazzle. The con is, you get more views on Zazzle if you link directly. But IMO, it's better to have a better view-sales ratio in the end.

So, now on my website, I don't only have to take care of directing people to their local domains if they wish (to avoid losing my affiliate/promo credit if they switch within Zazzle), but I also need to work around that new landing page. Fortunately, I'm in a better position than many others since I am in a niche and have a pretty unique style and loyal followers liking my works, but it's still annoying and I still may lose credits if I'm unfortunate. What a mess.

[sm]

What if they make links from personal websites go to the landing pages soon? I bet they will. It is a mess. Every time I plan to do something on Zazzle, they make it impossible lol.  I'm glad this time the issues happen before I invest too much time for nothing. 

[Fiorenzo]

Thank God I'm in time to adapt, too, since I'm an expert in procrastinating and still lack a working website. The positive aspect is, I don't have to decide anymore if I want to use regular links or API functionality for my product links. I'm definitely going for the latter but will store both links in the database so I can switch easily. And if things get ugly, I will add yellow warnings on red banners for my visitors with what they should NOT do on Zazzle.

[CreativeLeahG]

Yes, my current work arounds (as I hope they fix this!) is to only link collections or images from collections that mean the link still goes to the collection page (maybe create more micro collections) and also to only link from my site. What for me is the biggest blow is that my regular promoter 1 program links shared via their 'ascend/pepperjam' affiliate program also go to the landing page, does this mean I also miss that referral (15% on ANY sale) because of the reasons you state in that this page is not my 'referral linked page'?? It is as you say a 'mess' and I know it's having an impact because my referrals have fallen so dramatically despite my many thousands of links and healthy linkover history. I've so far deleted over 77,000 links. I may as well start from fresh. It's a very sad day and I do hope Zazzle can 'fix this' issue!!  

[Fiorenzo]

Regular referral links with attached rf ID shouldn't in theory be affected because you should get the referral no matter what product they buy (if there is no other cookie active newer than 2 weeks). Don't know how promoter program 1 links worked, didn't join that one. Of course, it will have an impact. The way it is now, many self-promoters will lose their shares of quite a bunch of customers, and Zazzle will earn these.

[CreativeLeahG]

With ascend/pepperjam that program is 15% so equivalent to the promoter 1 program ( re affiliate fee paid on ANY product) but my ascend links are also going to the landing pages. I don't know if the redirect will affect referrals but I do know that despite having referred a few thousand 'other sellers' using these links, I have not earned a single referral fee, which is odd, so am wondering if this landing page is affecting the referral link. I will have to henceforth refer other sellers via collections only, just in case.

[Fiorenzo]

I don't know how pepperjam works, and with promoter program 1 I meant the first variant of the self-promoter program, not the regular affiliate program with the rf code. If you use your affiliate code to link to Zazzle, the cookie and affiliate share should be yours, where applicable, even with this landing page and people buying products from other designers. UNLESS... Zazzle deliberately ignores your affiliate code in this case and sets its own cookie.

@James Please, can you bring some light in this whole chaos and officially explain how this change works, what sort of links are affected, and how it affects self-promoters as well as regular affiliates? Thank you!

[CreativeLeahG]

My Twitter link goes to the landing page

[Fiorenzo]

This: "Also, with a virgin browser (no cookies & haven't clicked into the Zazzle domain yet), if you view any Zazzle page first and then go to a product page (directly or via a link), you get the regular product page. That interim page only shows up if a product page is your first stop in Zazzle." - And you lose your self-referral cookie if your customer visits a different Zazzle page but your own at first. So, even if they're just curious and head back to your product page after a quick check of a different product in a new tab or window (this is something I do often on YouTube when watching a video but seeing another interesting one that I want to watch, too), your self-referral is gone for the next 2 weeks and Zazzle gets theirs (unless they delete the cookies).

I don't clear cookies after closing. I clear them manually after some time. 

[Cat]

"And you lose your self-referral cookie if your customer visits a different Zazzle page but your own at first. So, even if they're just curious and head back to your product page after a quick check of a different product in a new tab or window (this is something I do often on YouTube when watching a video but seeing another interesting one that I want to watch, too), your self-referral is gone for the next 2 weeks and Zazzle gets theirs (unless they delete the cookies)."

I'm not sure this is how it works. I often get self-referrals from customers who buy more than one product. I get the referral on both products. So it can't be that you only get the referral if they come directly to your product page and buy from there without visiting any other pages. I mean, it that was the way it worked then you could never get a self referral by promoting your store or your collection. Elizabeth (from Zazzle) told me once in an email exchange that the way the promoter 2.0 program works is that if they can't trace the referral back to another source you get it. But I don't know exactly what that means. It would be nice to get some clarification from Z.

[Fiorenzo]

Referrals work with cookies and these cookies last 2 weeks if I remember well and will not be overridden during this period (after the changes they made, before they were overridden after a few hours I think to remember). Whoever refers a certain customer first, gets his cookie set and is "safe" during this time. This means that he gets credit for any purchase made in this time period by that customer, where eligible. The two affiliate programs work differently.

The regular affiliate program works with a referral ID you attach to any of your links leading to Zazzle. No matter where your referred customer lands on Zazzle (probably with a few exceptions), this referral ID is set and stored in your customer's cookie if there is no other referral cookies already stored that is not older than 2 weeks. If you are successful, from that moment every purchase this customer makes grants you a 15% referral share. Not sure if this happens only for 2 weeks or until your cookie gets overridden by another affiliate or Zazzle itself.

The promoter program works differently. Self-referrals work with "clean" links with no attached referral code. Every "clean" link that directs to a designer's page - the designer's store, categories, collections, and products - is assumed to be a self-promotion of that specific designer if the designer is in the promoter program. In these cases, the referring designer gets his designer (not referral) ID stored in the referred customer's cookie (again, if no other referral ID newer than 2 weeks present). When successful, this designer gets 35% credit for every purchase of his own products but 0% for any purchase of products of other designers (again within these 2 weeks or until the cookie gets overridden).

In the case, a clean link leads to any Zazzle page that is not a designer's page, e.g. the Zazzle home page, a faq page, whatever, Zazzle gets the credit. So, if you link to the Zazzle home page first, the referred customer's cookie is updated with Zazzle's ID and every purchase that customer makes during these 2 weeks doesn't give you anything. So you must be careful that you FIRST link to one of your pages, before you can then direct your customer to other Zazzle pages, to make sure, your ID is stored and you get your share.

If you first link to a different designer's page with a clean link, that one designer gets the 35% credit if eligible.

Edit: That's why I always say to make sure you don't mix clean promoter links and regular affiliate referrals in the same place. Whatever link your customer uses first will determine your share, and if you are unlucky you may earn less than expected. E.g. 0% on third-party products if your customer uses first a clean link and then an affiliate link to a third-party product, or 15% instead of 35% if the customer clicks first on a regular affiliate link but then buys one of your products rather than third-party ones.

[JimCarnicelli]

Thank you so much for this detailed description! This is exactly what I've been looking for the past few months.

[xzendor7]

I don't know how many people know this, but there are two referral programs.

One where you generate referral fees from purchase directly from people you drive to your shop and then if those people buy from another shop.  This is the 15% one.

The the higher tier one is the one where you only generate a referral fee in addition to your commission fee for people you refer using your link.  If a person buys from another shop with this tier, you do not get affiliate income from that purchase.

[ColsCreations]

Zazzle Promoter Program 2.0 FAQs

(That last sentence is really interesting! )

[Cat]

Thanks @ColsCreations I knew I'd seen an FAQ somewhere but I couldn't find it! The last sentence is very interesting indeed! I also think these words are key "...when a customer begins their session on Zazzle by clicking on a promoter link to your product, store, collection, member page, etc." That implies that you don't lose the referral if the customer visits a bunch of products by other designers as long as they eventually buy something of yours. 

[JimCarnicelli]

I am still a relatively new Zazzler. I'm fascinated by this whole conversation. It's revealing how limited my understanding is of the two referral programs. I wonder now if it makes the most sense to go for what seems a more guaranteed 15% cut with an explicit referral ID in every URL than a less likely 35% cut with a "clean URL". Thoughts?

[CreativeLeahG]

My humble opinion, I'd go for the 15%. This is what I always do when sharing from my websites/blogs. However as noted previously, for reasons unknown those referrals dropped off to almost non-existence when I joined the P2 program and there is no rhyme nor reason as to why that should have happened.

Trial and error, split test and see what works for you.

[CreativeLeahG]

So this page pops up for all eligible referrals only is that what you're saying?

I don't think this is accurate as I see this page (some pins and not for others) and I have Zazzle cookies?

[Sara_H]

the same happens if you click on a link from twitter/x  - it's an extra click to view product details and for customers to put items in their basket and the collection that the product is in is all the way down under 60 other creator's products

Would like to know why too @CreativeLeahG why external clean links have a gatekeeper so to speak

[Laura]

This happens whenever a new customer clicks a Zazzle link because they are not logged in. If they click another link during the same session, it will go directly to the product page and skip the redirected page. So yes, it does affect our PP 2.0 links because we only get the referral when a new customer buys our own products and this appears to steer them away before they've seen the entire product details.

Not sure when I first noticed it, maybe around the same time the Home page was personalized?

[Cat]

Well, it happened to me when I clicked through from Leah's link even though I was already logged into Zazzle. Not sure what that means.

[CreativeLeahG]

It happens when logged in and it's random as not all the pins I checked went to this landing page.

[Cat]

I'm guessing that Zazzle is somehow redirecting incoming links from certain external sources. If you look at the link for the landing page when you click through from Leah's link it has some sort of parameter added after the URL - the part after the question mark.

https://www.zazzle.com/elegant_white_gold_lace_modern_wedding_invitation-256898874195404952?epik=dj0...

This forum keeps altering what you can see of the link, so here's an image of the actual link:

If you just copy the link part (delete the question mark and everything that follows) it takes you directly to the product page. I thought at first that this was a function of using Zazzle's share tool to create the link, so tried it with some pins that I created by hand but got the same result. So clearly Zazzle is somehow capturing incoming traffic from certain websites and adding that parameter.

However, if I click through from a link that I placed on my own website, the "epik" parameter does not get added to the link and it takes me directly to the product page. 

Don't know what it all means...

[CreativeLeahG]

I had thought the 'epik' aspect had to do with Pinterest so I tried clicking on non Zazzle Pins and I didn't get the eipk parameter.

As other's mentioned links from other sites affected too, so it's all the more bizarre. Hopefully Zazzle can shed some light. So far from what I checked, my blog links also go straight to my product page, but then so do some of my pins. It does appear random.

[Cat]

OK never mind. The "epik" parameter is a complete red herring. I did a few more tests and found that when I clicked on links from Pinterest I sometimes got the parameter & sometimes didn't, but either way it took me to the "landing page" instead of to the actual product page. 

I don't know what it means, but I'm really not sure it's worth worrying about. I seem to do pretty well with the promoter 2.0 program, and I don't really have enough data points (nor do I have the time) to do a thorough analysis to determine if I'm better off now than I would have been if I'd just posted links with my associate code and gotten the 15%. Plus, if I quit the program now, all of those zillions of clean links that I've got out there would be for naught.

So I'm just gonna focus on things I can control and not waste any more time getting myself worked up about stuff like this that I'll never be able to figure out or change. (Saying that mostly for my own benefit.)

[CreativeLeahG]

I was of this mindset so do relate, but I am seeing my promoter 2 referrals dwindle while my linkovers remain substantial. I have to do what brings me the most bang for my buck and so if this isn't it, I will have to make changes.

[Cat]

Agreed. But I'm not sure that Zazzle's policy of showing "other designs you may like" is all bad. I mean, I'm sure I lose some sales to other designers that way, but I probably also pick up some. That doesn't account for referrals though.

Anyhow, my point in talking about getting "worked up" was not to admonish you for bringing up this issue, I was mostly just talking to myself because I do have a tendency to fly off the handle and waste time and energy getting upset over things I can't control! 🙄

[SkullPilot]

Yes, the "epik" parameter is a Pinterest tracking parameter (like FBCLID for Facebook).

Here's some information (for the Facebook trackers, and from the context of trying to understand Google Analytics). Not sure whether Pinterest adding this overwrites any other parameters after the '?' I can't imagine it would change the actual URL from a single product page, to a multi-product landing page, as you said.

https://painlessbloganalytics.com/what-is-fbclid-how-to-remove/

BTW, I'm just working my way through this thread - in case I'm just repeating stuff somebody else has mentioned further down!

[sm]

That's not the worst part. The thumbnail of the product image we promote looks blurry while the thumbs of all the other designs are crystal clear. 

I don't like this feature at all. It seems pretty obvious to me why Zazzle is doing it but it will backfire because it removes any motivation to promote any product, even with a referral code. At this point, I will only promote collections and not products. If this is not an error and isn't fixed soon, I will have to remove my existing product links as the image just looks off. They encourage us to make cover images and to promote them, and this is the result? Of all the kicks in the teeth by Zazzle, this is absolutly the hardest one to take. It doesn't instil confidence in them, in fact, it appears to be such a desperate move to shift money from the designers' pockets into theirs, that it really makes one question the health of the organisation.

But, as always it is their company and they can make all the filthy decisions they want.