Yikes! I dunno what happened:(

BettyAndFreddy
New Contributor II

Hello all,

Is anyone else having abysmal sales, like way out of the ordinary this month?  I am just very confused as to why I only have two sales for this entire month so far.  I feel like I maybe missed something?  

43 REPLIES 43

KeegansCreation
Honored Contributor

Cover photos possibly. Products with cover photos are getting boosted so those without are falling.

KeeganCreations

Oh wow, thank you.  I had no idea.  This doesn’t seem fair? Anyway, thank you so much for your reply!

PenguinPower
Valued Contributor III

I’ve been having what I consider to be a good month so far.. especially for February, which is typically slow, and not because of editors picks or cover photos.. About 1/2 of my sales so far are products that don’t have a cover and 1/2 were consistent sellers pre covers.. 

Cat
Honored Contributor III

They changed up the search algorithm. As Keegan mentioned it now favors products with covers, but there were other changes as well. Apparently editor's picks are now more heavily weighted than before. I'm sure there were other changes too, but I don't know what they were.

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Cat @ ZB Designs

Mariholly
Valued Contributor

January was an amazing month. February is being slow... I have quite a few products with cover photos and also some editor's picks that are not on the first pages (about 500 cover photos, maybe 4 or 5 well positioned products) I have had many cancellations, many more than in past months, or that's my feeling. Very slow sales, really.

BettyAndFreddy
New Contributor II

Thank you all for the replies and info.  I’ve been so busy lately with family stuff that I didn’t get the memo about the cover photos.   I will have to go in and check that out.

thanks again guys!

mblue
Contributor

I agree with Cat.  I think it's the changes to the site in search, low to high/new and old designs that are shown.  I also think Zazzle is promoting a lot more people.  In the past, designs that were featured on the popularity pages didn't change as much as they change now.

I've created and uploaded over 1,200 cover photos and my sales are down, so it's not that.  I have designs without covers that sell too.  I also don't think it's the Editor's picks.  I had about 3 last year, and the past few months, I've been getting more, but it hasn't affected the sales of those designs.  Some of the editors picks I got were designs that sold well in the past, and those also haven't increased.  One EP that was featured a few years ago was posted at the top of the page, and it didn't sell at all.  It just depends on what customers want and if they see you.  Visibility, I think has a lot to do with it, if you had more sales last year.  That is the thing that has changed for me.

Cat
Honored Contributor III

I also wonder if there are bigger picture issues at play here. It would be interesting to know if Zazzle's sales overall are down, of if it's just that the sales are going to different designers. My sales are about the same as they were this time last year, but I have a LOT more designs now than I did then. Most of my stuff is for weddings though, and it's certainly true that last year there was a HUGE pent-up demand in that market. Not sure if that's evened itself out now or what. I think there are also probably changing shopping habits in general as people start to go back to more brick & mortar stores. I guess we'll see what happens...

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Cat @ ZB Designs

catinarezi
Contributor

My month has been terrible. I guess I never had such an awful month in terms of earnings. I already know I won't be paid in april.

I'm slowly restructuring my entire store but even though I deleted non-selling products, improved a lot of the existing ones, organized my store and had two products featured as Editors' Pick, I got only THREE sales. I'm reviewing every title, every copy, every keyword...

I must be really missing something. People are speaking about the new personalized cover photos. If that's really the case, it's really unfair to prioritize showing products because someone can buy their own products and do a professional photoshoot while many of us struggle with money issues and work so hard to create high quality designs.

I don't have many products, but with the few I have, I was able to achieve Pro Bronze status, so I believe I have good designs, that people like, and suddenly I feel they're not even being shown. At least Zazzle could be honest to us about the algorithm so we know how to adjust.

Right now I'm so sad.

Catherine Marie Narézi
Art in Card - Creative DesignArt in Card - Creative Design

You don't need to buy the products and do your own photoshoot. On the product page go to More Options (top bar) and choose Download Artwork to get what's on the design tool to put in a mockup. Or choose Download Product Mockup, remove Zazzle's background and put in a new background.

KeeganCreations

I believe only the second option works, because on the first option I would be applying the artwork to some random product of an external site mockup. For me it doesn't make sense.

And the second option for me seems like working to have almost the same result. So I get Zazzle's mockup and change the background? I'll just spend time I should spend on creating products and improving my store to make a cover. I shouldn't have to. No one should...

This should be an option for people who have better pictures of their products and want to be able to display them, but not a differential to have priority in searches.

I'm still selling stuff without doing cover photos. I'm working on stuff I feel is more important, like redoing my keychains for the new double-sided format. When Zazzle suggests something, you have to consider whether it's really a good idea for you as a designer. I can see doing covers for a few bestsellers, but not thousands of them. That's a lot of wasted time that could go on making new art and more products.

Deleting all your products that haven't sold is another piece of advice Zazzle will give you, but it's not good for the designer. If the design is fine and the keywords are fine, leave the product alone. I'd have made a lot less if it wasn't for the weird random sales of the thing I made two years ago that nobody had viewed until last week and then I sold ten of them.

If you're not convinced, never forget that Zazzle was telling designers to design cheeseboards for special occasions for years. Those cheeseboards had never been in stock during my entire time on Zazzle and were eventually discontinued. Zazzle does not always get it right.

But won't they drop our Zrank? I believe that Zrank helps somehow on the searches, because mine reached 8, then I had a boom of sales, so I decided to raise prices because it made sense to me. Then they dropped me to 7 and my sales instantly dropped too. I'm still not recovered. And it seems no matter how I improve my store, Zrank doesn't come back up. Had two products chosen as editors' pick and Zranks keeps on 7 and selling almost nothing. From $300 in october to $9.95 in February. I understand sale can oscilate, but I think that's too extreme. I don't get what I'm doing so wrong because my prices are not abusive or even higher than the average I see on similar products.

It's currently unknowable if cover photos factor into the zrank algorithm. It has only been a few weeks since we found out that cover photos get a placement boost- and going to any product page shows this is now true. Top line products now have cover photos more often than not with the tippy-top going to products that are both editor's picks and have cover photos. It is guessed that better placement will in time lead to better sales and better sales could boost zrank, though they are not the only factor.

But do cover photos now affect zrank independent of sales? We'll only be able to tell that if:

  1. people report that their sales have remained steady but they made few or no cover photos and dropped a zrank point despite not dropping in sales. This would most likely apply to people who have great success from off site promotion (perhaps have their own popular website) and so don't depend on MP placement to make sales.
  2. people report that their sales have remained steady (including low but steady sales) but their zrank has gone up after making large amounts of cover photos. This one will be pretty hard to disentangle from MP placement unless their steady sales include plenty of products that don't (yet) have a cover photo.

I haven't seen any anecdotes in the forum yet about zrank drops from no/few cover photos or zrank climbs from many cover photos (with sales rate unchanging) but it's early days. Or maybe the anecdotes will never come. Or maybe cover photos have no effect on zrank by themselves but can affect a product's placement which can affect sales which can affect zrank.

It's just unknown.

I personally have been making cover photos as much as I can. Some I made by isolating the product mockup from its' background and giving it a new background. This can be done faster by making a mask that will work for any instance of the product and then just swapping in new backgrounds, but even then it is slow. Some I I did commercially because I just don't have the Photoshop skills to turn Zazzle's duvet cover and shower curtain mockups into anything that looks reasonable. But paper that can be put on a flatlay (many available free) or models who can be put in front of a new background (many new backgrounds for those models available free from Pixabay, Pexels etc.) has been my go-to. But it does take a lot of work. My sales have been slow but steady throughout a February of doing this and designing only a couple new products. No rise in zrank. I'll post in the forum if I ever get a rise. But maybe my sales would have fallen off a cliff if I hadn't made any cover photos. I sold some things with cover photos but also my old reliable products without.

 

KeeganCreations

PenguinPower
Valued Contributor III

I don’t think covers are affecting Z Rank. I’ve made a number of them across my variously ranked stores and haven’t seen any changes in that regard. Sales and views seem to be the only things that make that budge..

@Polenth, I totally agree

PenguinPower
Valued Contributor III

You don't have to buy anything to make cover photos. It is acceptable to create them digitally.

Bert
New Contributor II

I'm following this discussion about cover photos for a while now and their is one thing that bothers me. If I look at a random product image which is clearly a not a Zazzle mockup, i.e. a mockup from a third party, I notice differences in the product itself. For instance a mug in a cover photo is different in build than the one in accompanying standard Zazzle photos. An example from the Marvel store: https://www.zazzle.com/time_variance_authority_crest_mug-168295016509370460

The size and position of the mug handle is clearly different. Where I come from (EU) that would be awfully close to misleading the buyer. Details, but still. And that's my problem. how close will those third party mockup photos be to the original Zazzle product?

J32Design
Contributor III

My sales have slowed a bit compared to January. Luckily I am not seeing a total drop yet. Cover photos may have an impact, but I believe they will be a pain for Zazzle sooner rather than later, as I don't see people using them responsibly.

Yeah, the products in some photos are not at all similar to the products to which these photos refer. I often see similar situations with gift tags or business cards. 

Mouse
Contributor

My Christmas time sales were way down and February has me in panic mode.  I have been working on cover photos but it sure isn't helping. Many in the Pro Silver group are complaining of sales. My only hope is my sales will come back soon. I rely on the income. 

ColsCreations
Honored Contributor II

With all the new things being implemented and worked into however the placement algorithms work (for search results or when simply navigating around browsing), I feel at this point that something in the works is broken. I've come across a number of my own products (that have sold and do have covers now) in the last week or three that are entirely AWOL from the MP. You can see them in my store directly and in the "Other Products from this Collection" scrolls", but they don't exist in the MP whether by searching or by navigating & filtering. They're just gone. One of these products was coming up in the #1 spot for multiple keyword + product type searches, signed in or out, both before and after adding a cover. Now it's invisible. It's not a matter of it having been "bumped down" - it's simply gone from the MP. There's no way for people to see this product to View or Buy unless they are browsing my store, come in from a direct link, or happen to see it in a "other products from the collection" scroll under another product. I'm going to ask about this in the Tech forum but meanwhile it's had me concerned, how many other products have just stopped existing in the MP? There's no way to know unless you happen to be trying to search-up a specific one for whatever reasons and realize it's not there. If you're like me and rely mostly on organic sales from the MP rather than your own promoting, sales are obviously going to tank, as mine have,  if products aren't visible in the MP.

I have been wondering if this is something personal but on seeing so many high-level designers reporting tanking sales, I think something is broken. Z had to work products with Covers (which they said no bones about it would get preferential treatment) into their algorithms. They had to work products with Instant Download option into their algorithms (we can see without being told that also boosts "ranking"). And they changed something else so that pages are simply hemorrhaging EP's, intentionally or not. And somewhere in all these "tweaks" to their algorithms, a black hole opened up that is swallowing innocent products.

So end point - if your sales are suffering, it may not just be because of all the Covers and EP stuff bumping placement, it could be products falling into the black hole, invisible in the MP.

 

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Well, HUH! I don't need to ask about this in the Tech forum. I just saw the thread @Scott started today asking for links to MIA products. So they are aware there's a black hole swallowing products.

Products that are missing from the marketplace  

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Cat
Honored Contributor III

I'm wondering how you know that your product isn't available in the marketplace. Not saying that you're wrong, but when the announcement came about the covers, out of curiosity I did a search for my best-selling product which hadn't sold in a while - thinking that maybe it was being outranked by designs with covers. To be clear, I've had over 500 orders for this invitation and sold over 30,000 copies of it. I searched by the exact title but I couldn't find it. All I saw was design after design after design by the same platinum level seller - all of which looked very similar to my design and all of which were published around the time my best seller started faltering in terms of sales - and none of which had covers. Hmmm...

Anyhow, I finally found my former best seller near the tail end of the search. I went ahead and made a cover for it, and it moved up slightly, but it's still got about 20 of the platinum seller's designs ahead of it. None of the products ahead of it have a cover or are editor's picks - but they're all by the same platinum level seller (and they all look VERY similar to each other.) And this is when searching by the EXACT title of my best seller. The only way I can get it to show up first in the search is by putting the title in quotes and searching for it that way.

I don't know what that means. Perhaps all of the platinum seller's designs have substantially more sales than mine does - all of which have been racked up in only a few months? Seems unlikely, but it's possible. I guess what I'm saying is that it seems like whatever's happening with the new algorithm, neither cover nor spectacular sales history is enough to guarantee a decent placement in the marketplace, even when searching for the exact title - and it's certainly not enough to counter the weight of being a platinum level seller. Or maybe the title is not a big part of the algorithm anymore? Or maybe they purposely de-ranked products with tons of sales to mix it up a bit? Who knows.

So it could be that your product is still there, it's just so hopelessly buried that you can't find it. Have you tried putting the exact title in quotes when searching for it?

 

ETA: Upon closer inspection, I finally figured out why it didn't appear until near the bottom of the search. The search is being ordered by price even when it's supposed to be being ordered by "most popular" - so products designed on fliers are all appearing before mine even when searching by the exact title. I'm not sure if that's a technical glitch or what, but it is very interesting.

 

 

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Cat @ ZB Designs

CrazyMermaid
Valued Contributor II

I guess it's time to make 20 flyer versions of your invite. Good detective work and a valuable piece of info. Thank you. I have had to make flyer and budget versions of all my invites to fight off the competition. 

Cat
Honored Contributor III

I guess so. I restricted all of my budget invites to semi-gloss because I had a number of complaints from people who just assumed it would be on cardstock. Maybe making versions on fliers would make it clear that it's thin paper? I dunno.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to accuse anyone of copying - it was a pretty generic design, just annoyed me that I was MIA in the search. 

OK, I'm going to go research the difference between "flier" and "flyer" now because it's making me crazy not knowing which is correct!

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Cat @ ZB Designs

CrazyMermaid
Valued Contributor II

I'm just saying it's time to protect your livelihood. I figure if someone is going to borrow my design idea and put it on cheaper versions, it's going to be me. LOL about flyer versus flier. I never thought about it. Just use whatever Zazzle is. This is about protecting your place in the MP after all. Add the other in keywords. Spend your time making 20 versions not on usage!

Cat
Honored Contributor III

Well, I can't say that they borrowed my design idea - as I said it was a pretty generic design so it's likely just a coincidence. I have such mixed feelings about invitations on bond weight paper. It just seems deceptive to me especially since the paper descriptions don't make it clear whether it's cardstock or not. I guess I could make flier (or flyer 😋) versions and try to make the title very clear that it's not cardstock. I just don't want customers to feel like they're being tricked.

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Cat @ ZB Designs

CreativeLeahG
Honored Contributor III

As per my pm. I didn't borrow your design idea Cat (given many sellers have lace corners on their invites) but I share your frustration as designers often  'borrow' my ideas for text layouts and creating budget items to compete with a niche I introduced. A niche I introduced because every other invite site has a budget range. I have done a lot of work re this and I worked hard to find a product to compete with Zazzle competitors NOT fellow Zazzle designers. Ie the semi-gloss sheets which are identical to the premium flatc ard. The flyers was kicked off by someone wishing to compete 'with me' and yay for everyone who made $0.50 on 100 flyers! It isn't a money maker. BUT it has its place for those that really can't afford more than $30 for invites. And those customers DO NOT compete @CrazyMermaid  with premium items because they never would have spent that amount to begin with nor shopped at Zazzle. My research showed Zazzle was not on the radar for budget wedding couples. Now it is, and that's a good thing. It opened up the market.

So I'm not knocking it. But be under no illusions, flyers didn't get me to platinum. 😂

That aside, I have been doing things in 'the niche' you mention since I started and I 'refresh' my designs periodically when new fonts etc are introduced and I discover better layouts and of course trends for wording etc change. It does not mean the niche is new to me.

My search re the niche showed many with that 'familiar' corner theme. Corner themes  generally 'corner' (punny) perhaps 70% of all the invite themes on zazzle. So yes as you note ... generic.

https://www.zazzle.com/s/white+gold+lace+wedding+invitations

Note you are ranking high here, but the higher ranking with designs 'similar' to yours do potentially have higher sales and older designs. So it appears to be working now?

 

Cat
Honored Contributor III

Leah, I am truly sorry for in any way implying that you might have copied my design. I REALLY do not think that you did. I was just so initially shocked that when searching by the exact title I was near the bottom of the page - but as I said above, I think the main reason was that the search was being ordered by price not popularity as it said it was. I just wanted to publicly apologize.

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Cat @ ZB Designs

CreativeLeahG
Honored Contributor III

Thank you Cat, we have resolved all in pm and all is good. I respect you loads and you're a work horse like me and I totally understand where your frustrations come from and of course the sheer exhaustion that can fuel things. We all need to work together at the moment. Personally for me I really want to make affiliating work. I want to drive as much traffic to Zazzle as is physically possible and that has dropped recently, down to maybe 600 a day. But I'm a great believer in investing in time so I hope that grows exponentially back to where it was and beyond! 

 

 

ColsCreations
Honored Contributor II

No, it's not a matter of not being able to find them in a bunch of other results, they're just not there now matter how specific the search and how few results. This tissue paper for example (which last sold on the 12th, I added a Cover on the 15th, and it was Liked on the 18th & 21st) is a part of this Collection of 17 products with same design and therefore all have [Harlequin Tie-Dye] as the first part of the title. An exact search for "[Harlequin Tie-Dye]" returns 16 of those 17 products and nothing else. The tissue paper is MIA. I can search six ways from Sunday, with other tags, tag strings, title parts, quotes, no quotes, signed in or signed out, etc ... and the tissue paper is never there. It's in a black hole.

I do sometimes search for my own products, just to see what other things are using the same tags, and because I am not in a highly saturated market, like wedding invites where there could be thousands of results for say "rustic roses" or something, it's generally not difficult for me to narrow search results down to find my own. This is how I happened on my products that are MIA. Of the three products that were MIA for the last week or three, two were returned to search results as of last night. The tissue paper is still MIA as of writing this though.

ETA the search link

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FYI, this is a screenshot of how it came up on Google.

harlequin.jpg

ColsCreations
Honored Contributor II

Wow, that's super interesting. I haven't tried searching Google for one of my products in ages because the times I did, nothing from Zazzle ever turned up, it would be mostly links to Pins. Neat that 10 days after adding a cover the image is already showing on Google. And yes, odd that Google can find the tissue paper but Z's own search isn't.

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Cat
Honored Contributor III

Eee Gads! That's very strange and disconcerting. I searched by the exact title and got "no results found" and then a bunch of other designs were presented. I wonder what it means...

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Cat @ ZB Designs

Yes!  I too have discovered products simply MISSING from the MP!  I know because I search a very specific string, say: modern artsy red towel (made up example).  The results might give 100 products.  I search thru, and my product - including all of those tags - is not there.  I've removed cover photos because of it and the product returns...

Cat
Honored Contributor III

Try putting the title in quotes and then doing the search. You can read my long blathering tale below, but essentially I discovered that a VERY popular product was practically MIA because the search was being ordered by price when it was supposed to be ordered by popularity - and there was no way to order it by popularity, so my invitation didn't appear until you sifted through a bunch of products done on paper fliers rather than cardstock unless I literally excluded everything else from the search by searching for the title in quotes.

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Cat @ ZB Designs

Caprice
Valued Contributor

Nope.  Doesn't find it. Using any of the tags doesn't find it. Interestingly - using the product NUMBER Z has assigned to it DOES find it.  It's there, apparently, but using words for search isn't finding it.

Cat
Honored Contributor III

Wow. That's disheartening. You should definitely report it on Scott's post.

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Cat @ ZB Designs