Tag spamming/stuffing
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07-05-2024 01:22 PM - edited 07-05-2024 01:24 PM
This discussion began here: https://community.zazzle.com/t5/general-zazzle-discussion/sales-down/td-p/134992/page/4
I decided to shift it to its own thread because it was tacked onto a more generalized topic, and because it's a big problem for ethical designers, both those well-established and those trying their best to get started.
Example: I ran a search on reunion postcards, finding 11 pages of them, but three pages were filled with t-shirts along with more sprinkled through other pages. They didn't have anything to do with reunions, and all were created by a single designer. I checked the tags and discovered what I suspected: a serious case of tag spamming cleverly created to cover as many subjects and products as possible.
Would a customer searching for reunion postcards want any of those shirts? No. And after several pages of this, they'd figure that they must have seen all the postcards available and drop out of the search. Not only would the postcards that (eventually) followed not be seen, any of the newer designs no matter how good they might be couldn't be seen at all because of the limitation on how many pages are shown.
I was lucky with my own cards, many of them showing up on the first pages, but what about everyone else?
Zazzle can't spend all the time necessary to root out selfish people, but can we? I mean, I found one such person, but wouldn't I have to report every single one of the offenses? I'm at a loss for what to do. Any ideas?
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07-06-2024 05:46 AM
Unfortunately all we can do is report ... we can add in report comment that whole site appears to be infringing not just one product.
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07-06-2024 07:08 AM
Yes, that's all we can do...currently. I'm not sure if Zazzle is following through with our comments, but I'm hoping they might be alerted to the fact that if tag spamming is in one product, it's overwhelmingly probable that it's in all the specific designer's products.
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07-06-2024 02:03 PM - edited 07-06-2024 02:10 PM
Honestly I don't know how the Z search engine comes up with some of its results.... If I go to the main page and search an old obscure classic ham radio that is only in my shop, I still get not only my designs, but a bunch of random stuff... the first 3 results are my design, but number four is a floral patterned bridal bingo game... It's not in any way tag stuffed or even tagged in a manner that one would expect it to come up under the search term "hallicrafters".. but there it is - it's tags are "floral, flowers, bingo, game, bridal, lavender, purple, wildflowers, elegant" All of my products eventually show, and on the first page, but lots of randos too, stuck in between.
I might get it if the other results were in some way related, even obliquely - other ham radio merch, which there is... but a bridal bingo game? A sympathy card? A biz card for hair and makeup? A postcard for Grenada... all things that show up, none that have anything to do with my search.
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07-06-2024 05:40 PM
I've got it. The algorithm is illiterate.
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07-06-2024 11:04 PM
I searched [hallicrafters] and got same results as you - a whole bunch of random stuff with zero reason to be there, nothing in the design style, tags, title, template text or even descriptions to explain their presence.
And then I was doing a COMPLETELY unrelated search - three words intended as an exact phrase [xx on yy]. I got about 4,000 results, almost all wedding stationary, which had [xx] and [yy] in the title/tags. But those products were irrelevant to my search because alone those words (fairly common as color descriptors) have no relevance to the context of them as the exact phrase I wanted. So I tried again but with quotes ["xx on yy"]. That also got about 4,000 results but this time about half of the first page of results were actually items using that exact phrase I was looking for as the design; the other half were just like searching without quotes - products that had [xx] and [yy] in the tags/titles but not in the context of the exact phrase. But here's where it gets really interesting ...
When I went on to page 2, I had to do a double-take as there was the very same bridal bingo card and other products you mentioned and that I too saw when searching for [hallicrafters]. There were at least six that I recognized immediately without even trying from the [hallicrafters] search and I never even went past page 2. So I'm thinking, maybe it's remembering my browsing history that I just recently viewed those items, so I opened a different browser, no history/cache/cookies, completely clean, and as an anon guest same thing, there were those very same products in both unrelated searches that had no reason to be in the results for either. I don't know what to make of this, it's really bizarre.
I have been encountering results more and more lately that have no apparent reason to be included so have been wondering if perhaps there is some experimental AI being used in search, producing these misguided results. But even if that were the case I don't see how it could explain the above. So maybe Z is trying a new marketing strategy, inserting random results in searches for more exposure, but getting the same "random" results in completely different searches like this doesn't point to them actually being random either. So I don't know. I am completely lost as to what is driving search now. All the t-shirt spammers seem to have figured it out though. 🤔
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07-06-2024 11:47 PM
Ok, true weirdness going on. Just did another COMPLETELY unrelated to the above two searches search, this time for some keywords used in my new wedding invite, and the #1 result is that same bridal bingo card, and then some of the other random ones that were in the other two searches. . My new invite showed up in the 7th spot of about 300 for my chosen keywords so that's cool, but what is going on here?
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07-07-2024 04:08 AM - edited 07-07-2024 04:14 AM
I'll be the outlier. I put hallicrafters in the search bar and got back precisely 7 hallicrafters products from the Penguin Protest store and nothing else. Maybe AI A/B?
My weird and somewhat implausible theory but maybe maybe maybe? Tag stuffing is a problem and trying to solve it with reporting is slow and ineffective. Maybe adding AI to the search algorithm is an attempt to have AI verify that the results match the search terms. And if so, maybe what we're seeing is the search algorithm equivalent of AI generating 6 fingers on human hands.
Or maybe not but it's a theory.
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07-08-2024 07:54 PM
I also searched for Hallicrafters and got only 7 results from a Penguin Protest store.
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07-08-2024 10:18 PM
I'll be the outlier. I put hallicrafters in the search bar and got back precisely 7 hallicrafters products from the Penguin Protest store and nothing else. Maybe AI A/B?
Whelp, looks like we have stumbled upon another situation like this one where you pretty much summed it up with
It's weird there are two distinct but nearly consistent sets of results depending on browser. It's also weird that Jerry got set A using Chrome but I got set B.
Given the varying results in this thread for 'hallicrafters' I tried it in all the browsers I have installed.
Opera (anon) - 7 results
Edge (anon) - 7 results
Vivaldi (anon) - 7 results
Firefox (signed in) - 131 results
Firefox (anon) - 141 results
Chrome (anon) - 7,445 results
Brave (anon) - 7,445 results
I can't believe such a vast difference between two of the most popular browsers (7 appropriate results w/ Microsoft, 7.5K chaotic results w/ Chrome) would be intentional for any reason. Maybe there's something in the bones of the search programming that isn't globally recognized as valid by all the different browser engines. I have no idea. But if it's intentional I'd love to know the reason as I just can't fathom one.
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07-09-2024 12:15 AM
But my Chrome is showing 7 results
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07-09-2024 05:23 PM
Yeah. There are different "sets" of results that vary depending on browser and also sometimes with whether one is signed into Zazzle or not. And others using same browser may get a different "set". I was hypothesizing it might be a programming issue as I am stretching to find an explanation besides it being intentional, because as said, I just can't fathom a reason this would be on-purpose.
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07-09-2024 05:04 PM
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07-07-2024 04:59 AM
Running a few tests on my own products, I found that using quotes is absolutely vital to getting fairly good results. Years back, boolean searches were much more familiar to people. I learned how to do it from Google, which explained it very clearly. It appears that, at least when it comes to quotes, such a search on Zazzle is possible, but it's useless unless customers are made aware of it.
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07-07-2024 09:56 PM
It's just the opposite for me. I've always put terms in quotes when I want those exact words, all of them, in that exact order, with nothing in between them. An exact-phrase search. It's one of those things where you don't know how or when you learned, it's just always been and I guess I thought it was just how everyone knew how to do too. . So it seemed natural to me on Zazzle to use quotes to narrow down searches and on the flip-side, to try to construct tags containing exact-phrases I thought customers might use. But at some point using quotes on Zazzle searches started mucking things up. Here's a post to tech forum I made in June 2023 about complications with a search and a Mod said it was most likely due to the use of quote marks which proved to be correct. And then here's a post I made a few days later after some testing and using quotes def mucked things up with that one.
So since then I rarely use quotes when searching on Zazzle because 1) I'm convinced they're throwing a monkey wrench into the works, and 2) if most other people (i.e shoppers) aren't using them, I want to know what results they're getting as that's really all that matters.
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07-08-2024 06:00 AM
What's interesting is that, until I used quotes around "circle of fifths," I was getting a lot of garbage. I assumed quotes were the key, but apparently not. Hopes dashed. So now the question is: what's going so awfully wrong with the Zazzle search? Sometimes it appears it's breaking apart words, picking out parts of them and thus adding mismatched results. "Cowboy" might result in cows and boys, "oxtail soup" eliciting oxen, tails, and soup, though who would search Zazzle for the latter is beyond me.
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07-07-2024 02:47 PM
Every search I do results in the same photo wedding invite. Even searches with my own name. I am beginning to loathe that invite. It’s like a spectre haunting me.
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07-08-2024 06:53 AM
I find the same thing in birthday invitations. Anonymous t-shirt designers are especially guilty of this. I think they purposefully flood profitable feeds hoping to pick up some business. I report them all.
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07-08-2024 08:13 AM
If you find, as I did, 3 full pages of tees all made by the same designer, do you report each individual shirt or do you make a note about the designer or a combination of both? I backed off because of the flood of shirts.
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07-08-2024 09:48 AM
I report them each individually. I figure if they wanted us to report the account, they would give us a way. There is no guarantee that the person even reads our comments. I cut and paste the same message saying that "this isn't an invitation and shouldn't be tagged as one. No wonder sales are down, customers can't find anything." I actually do this for every item that isn't an invitation, even if it is birthday related.
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07-08-2024 10:08 AM
I really wish there was an option to report a store and not just individual products because with these deliberate spammers, taking down one product at a time is barely a drop in the bucket. Whoever is reviewing the reports needs to be able to see the bigger picture. I have said things like "please checkout their store as all their products are like this" but no idea if they do. When I reported products like that I never kept track so no idea if any action was ever taken so I pretty much stopped reporting such products. However, a month or so back I reported probably two dozen shirts over the course of a few nights, all of which were 100% violating IP rules (like using team logos or album cover art) and I did keep track and all of them were promptly taken down in less than 24 hrs. So clear copyright offenders, that definitely gets their attention.
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07-08-2024 11:43 AM
The darned thing about reporting IP violations is that, if someone tries to buy one of the products, Zazzle spots it and cancels the sale along with deleting the item, but it's one thing at a time just like the spammers.
We could spend hours reporting a single spammer one product at a time, while someone at Zazzle might likely have to spend no more than minutes confirming what we report and dealing with the individual.
It's frustrating.
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07-08-2024 02:56 PM
I just do birthday invitations. I don't have the patience to write down what I am flagging and then check to see if they were removed. I can only hope.
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07-08-2024 03:30 PM
My own hope nearly crashed when I saw 3+ pages of tee shirts when I searched for reunion postcards. Not only was someone trying scam the system, but Zazzle's own search had brought them to the fore. It was proof that something desperately needs fixing. Sales are bad enough as is, and we all need a fighting chance.
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07-08-2024 08:34 PM
stranger and stranger... when I do the search in Safari it shows all of the strange unrelated things... switch to Chrome, only what I've searched for...
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10-02-2024 02:10 PM
Search Parameter vs. Results
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10-02-2024 03:50 PM
The #1 and #5 mug in that search shouldn't be there but are because they included 'jesus' as a tag. I clicked on some of the suggestions in the top row and ended up on a reporting spree. Submitted about a dozen violations. Barely a drop in the bucket. There were two types of offenders - items where all ten tags had to do with the upcoming US election but the designs had nothing to do with that, and designs that were centered around election stuff but randomly included 'jesus' in the tags. Flagrant tag stuffing to take advantage of popular/trending search terms.
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10-04-2024 11:53 PM
I saved those things I reported on 10/2 for tag-stuffing to a bookmarks folder. Turns out there were 12 total I reported. As of tonight all but one have been removed (they may have been removed sooner, don't know, this is the first I've checked), and the one that remains is the last one I reported so either that one got a pass or it's a timing thing. But I am impressed. Someone at Z is actually acting on reports we submit so it is worth the little bit of time it takes to report a few when you run into these flagrant violations. It's too bad it can't be prevented to begin with but every little bit we whittle away at it ='s a little less clutter in the MP results.
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10-05-2024 11:06 AM
Thank you ladies for your responses. I’ve very new to Zazzle (barely a year). I found it so odd that the ‘Line Up’ as i call it, at the top had mostly political mugs which I thought strange. I have reported some but it’s really the entire stores that are guilty of these things. (Bad Tagging Practices). I’m positive these kinds of stores are adding to the slump in sales. And many of them appear to be run/owned by the same person or company.
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10-03-2024 07:53 AM
"Zazzle can't spend all the time necessary to root out selfish people" Yes, they could. It would take people, time, and money to accomplish, but they absolutely could do it.
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10-03-2024 08:01 AM
I can't figure out the mindset of the spammers. Do they think they get some sort of points for showing up in a search? It doesn't translate into sales for them, so are they merely attention-seekers?

